A Reblog and A rant (not about GFOFHAVV)

Rookie writer was one of the gang at CF back in the day. He has been pretty open about issues in his relationship and subsequent marriage over 4 years or so, if I recall correctly.

I made my last comment after my prior post just before reading the post linked below. The specifics are going to differ, but most men will relate to this at one point or another in their marriages.

After Years of disrespect its hard to believe you are going to change

One thing he said stood out to me:

To make a long story short, I am not as open as I was at the beginning of the marriage because I don’t trust her with my heart.

Funny isn’t it that while they berate men about her need for security, I wager that more men walk on eggshells than women.

Its a different kind of example, but I have one in particular from my own life. My wife has always been a bit opinionated about medications. I’m not referring to narcotic medications here, by the way. I am referring to pretty much any medication that is beyond a general antibiotic. The grilling I, or now my young adult kids take if they bring home a prescription for almost anything is not something anyone really wants to hear. This is not a situation where she prefers natural remedies, that would be a niche complaint. It comes from some deep suspicion or something that I cannot really figure out. Maybe it should have been obvious when I first encountered the extended family over 20 years ago how freely they assigned the label “addict” or “alcoholic” to people, who once I got to know them were anything but. Just a theory.

I recall eventually just deciding not to tell her, even if I’d visited a physician. I’d place medications where all the medications are, not hidden, and wait for the day when first an innocent question would come coupled with “why didn’t you tell me?”. She would be very non-judgemental for a couple of weeks then start nagging about it. She needed to speak to the Dr. She thinks its unnecessary. She feels the dosage is wrong. Whatever. And again, we are not talking about narcotics.

Eventually it led me and my older adult aged kids to just avoid the matter by not keeping medicines in the open. It happened recently. Between the time she innocently discovered a medication had been prescribed, and the time the lecturing set in, a couple of months passed. But it always happens. Again, to be clear, this is not my favorite issue about natural remedies. Has nothing to do with this. It is something else entirely. Besides, I’m using this as an example only, not to start a topic about medication. Its an example of the nature of a problem that I wager men will almost all relate to on some level. That being facing a decision about “what she doesn’t know will not hurt her” on certain things.

On the one hand she (generic she) wants to feel secure telling you anything and you’d dang well not be judgmental, in fact you best not have much at all to say except platitudes like “I understand why you feel that way”. She also expects you are going to tell her every detail of every day, according to Jimmy Evans. But she is not only not constrained in how she responds, she is ENCOURAGED by these ministries to be the holy spirit of the house (whatever that needs to mean at the moment) and set some guardrails for you. Its simple but never stated plainly. they want you to tell her everything because they want her to approve or disapprove everything. Only then can we know that it is good, that we have made a good decision. This is true servant leadership in this twisted evangelical feminist world of modern Christian marriage.

This is what men ought to be able to discuss with each other in church men’s gatherings. And the men should not have to endure a lecture about more sacrifice and more service and how that will sort this out.

What will sort this out is when the irresistible force of a woman’s will meets the immovable object of God’s conviction. Short of that, no, do not expect men to share every single detail of every day because frankly, she is ill equipped to handle the information.

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31 thoughts on “A Reblog and A rant (not about GFOFHAVV)

  1. Short of that, no, do not expect men to share every single detail of every day

    I can’t imagine wanting to know every detail of my husband’s day.

    As to the rest of it, I can understand why Rookie Writer feels the way he does. It’s only natural.

    There have been times when my husband just threw his hands up on an issue and we’ve just tabled that thing because why bother when we are never going to agree? I’ve done the same.

    Of course, we don’t subscribe to the notion that a marriage is only good if you know every single thought your mate has about every single thing and you agree on every minute facet of life.

  2. “This is what men ought to be able to discuss with each other in church men’s gatherings. And the men should not have to endure a lecture about more sacrifice and more service and how that will sort this out.”

    Precisely!

  3. I have been telling my son, who is 2 years into a serious relationship, among other things, “there is some knowledge too wonderful for women”. If you tell her one percent of your thoughts, she will use them against you if it ever becomes convenient. And it will. I learned this bitter lesson the hard way.

  4. The churchianity nonsense (self-immolating gatherings) you refer to is indicative of emotional retardation. The truth is most men aren’t comfortable admitting if they feel emotionally unsafe. If you understand the dynamic illustrated in Rookie’s post, you must confront your wife about her behavior and how it makes you feel. More importantly, confront her about it being ungodly. It is disrespectful. Be strong in so doing. If she is not mature enough to handle it, then start praying.

    And realize there are still things you shouldn’t bother telling her.

  5. 😦 How sad… I do think you’re right, most women over-react and typically beat dead horses like the medicine issue more than most men ever would (if the situation was turned around). But certainly women can sometimes learn to not be so critical or nagging… I’m not this way with my husband, but that didn’t happen by chance, it did take some work in the beginning (lucky enough to be our first year) to see where I was going wrong with expecting him to be perfect or exactly like me.

    A wife is supposed to be an encourager and invigorator for her husband… I feel like it’s good to know each other’s decisions and thoughts and actions, secrets tear at the intimacy of a marriage. But with knowing a person’s secrets has to come a huge amount of responsibility to not use it against them – in any way. If a wife doesn’t have that capability to preserve her husband & safeguard his secrets, then she’ll lose his trust and a good chunk of his heart.

    Thank you for the interesting post!

  6. My wife would start to tell me what I was going to do with the rest of the day some days. I just sit there and listen and look at her attentively, And look at her attentively and wait. Now she apologizes when she does it. If that doesn’t work I would ask her what the Lord has for her to do today and that gets her backtracking. I’m His servant, not hers.

  7. I hope you take this positively but I find the example of your wife and medications a little odd. Why haven’t you simply told her that it is not an area for her discussion unless you ask for it? Silence and even hiding things because of her nagging – this will improve nothing. Why the indirectness, why the avoidance?

  8. I suspect it is not presented as a solution to imitate so much it is a way that this tendency in women can produce avoidance in men.

    I think that the point here is mostly that men troubled by relationships with women are mostly told to suck it up, move on or take responsibility, and that nowhere in that is recognition that women sometimes just plain behave badly. It’s as though there are only two possibilities, “servant leader” with no concerns of his own or the tyrannical ogre bellowing for his dinner while demanding sex on tap.

  9. Why haven’t you simply told her that it is not an area for her discussion unless you ask for it? Silence and even hiding things because of her nagging – this will improve nothing. Why the indirectness, why the avoidance?

    I didn’t get that from Empath’s post. That he was hiding something. Maybe I missed it.

    When a certain topic always repeatedly introduces unpleasantness my husband will say, ‘Whatever [El]. I’m done with this.” I know that he means two things. 1) Shut up because I’m not talking about this with you anymore and don’t try and 2) I’ve decided that what you think about this topic is irrelevant. He wouldn’t bother to hide it from me because he knows that I know that once he closes the discussion, it’s closed.

    That’s kind of how I interpreted what was written here. That the discussion was closed. Perhaps avoidance just helps keep it closed in his house.

  10. Thats correct Elspeth. Aquinas dad you assumed an incredible amount as a premise for your comment. As sojourner suggested, I didn’t post that as a quandary for advice. In fact, if I was the type of man who would “share” that sort of thing here, or with a group of men, or on some goofy place like Christian forums (where men and women posted the most banal problems and asked for suggestions which were them equally banal) I dare say I have no business writing any of the things I write.
    I may not have a “clean” situation, meaning free from any and all strife, I venture no one does…..but to imagine Ive never said, thats it, done, aint talkin about this period is a wrong assumption. I get that you may have been trying to be constructive, but it kinda sorta also assumes that a woman will simply respond to that. Note that Elspeth admits that she has to encounter “we are done here” repeatedly.
    I dont hide things. I said I place the stuff out in the open. When it arises I sometimes ignore her, sometimes try and reason with her (mistake) and sometimes flatly say “we are done”. I know they exist, I even know 1 or 2, but women who do not do what i am saying are exceedingly rare, no matter the reaction or declaration of the husbands. Those are those majority, and they are the ones of which I speak.

    No harm no foul. If you read my old post called Free Wally you will see a heartbreaking example of this in the extreme.

    https://empathological.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/free-wally/

  11. Note that Elspeth admits that she has to encounter “we are done here” repeatedly.

    Yes, I have encountered it. The instances have grown much fewer and farther between, and quite rare in the past 8 years or so. 8 years ago was a turning point for us, but no matter. Wives can learn.

    I know they exist, I even know 1 or 2, but women who do not do what i am saying are exceedingly rare, no matter the reaction or declaration of the husbands.

    True, but we can learn.

  12. @SS and Empath

    It’s as though there are only two possibilities, “servant leader” with no concerns of his own or the tyrannical ogre bellowing for his dinner while demanding sex on tap.

    There are other possibilities, but these two choices aren’t mutually exclusive. The first is what I produce, and who benefits from my production; my actions. The second is what I demand, and I have no shame about that. There was a time when I did because I was confused, and I assumed that God’s plan for the operation of a marriage was too inscrutable for a plain reading to make sense of in our modern times.

    But I’m getting ahead of myself…

    @AD

    Why haven’t you simply told her that it is not an area for her discussion unless you ask for it? Silence and even hiding things because of her nagging – this will improve nothing. Why the indirectness, why the avoidance?

    The spirit a man has about these things matters; for both he and his wife. If he’s trying to “not get in trouble”, it’s too late: He’s in trouble. If he is sparing her from making an ass of herself–from being overcome by her sinful nature–then I think that’s just prudent. It’s living with one’s wife in understanding.

    People lie to themselves about which of these they are doing when, but that’s a separate issue.

  13. The spirit a man has about these things matters; for both he and his wife. If he’s trying to “not get in trouble”, it’s too late: He’s in trouble. If he is sparing her from making an ass of herself–from being overcome by her sinful nature–then I think that’s just prudent. It’s living with one’s wife in understanding.

    You prompted some deep thinkin’ over here with this…..

    First I get all defensive immediately when a man 15 or so years my junior deigns offer words of wisdom like this. More on that in a moment.

    This , the bold part of what Cane said is EXACTLY! what is happening in my situation. I’m glad you wrote that Cane. It was not quite that this was happening and I didn’t know it until you said it. Its more that when I “avoid” (lack better word) things, at that moment in time my heart (Oy, I don’t even like THAT word to describe this)….my gut….whatever…is precisely about keeping her out of trouble for her own good. I am very much aware I am doing exactly what you said when I am doing it, I just didn’t think to write that in my post, mainly because I really didn’t want to make it about me so I didn’t think it through as to how some may react to it here.

    I am compelled add something and never let Cane feel he made a complete point, if for no other reason than to show that I’m 15 years older hence I have to be wiser in one way or another. Is this not the same urge that makes the gamesters go on and on splitting hairs? If so, shoot me now.

    The added point is that when you reach this stage deeply/decades into marriage, and have young adult children, you see what these wife tendency things sow in them. Its worth unpacking because it perfectly illustrates the zone a father and husband MUST operate in as a Godly leader of a family, and and how taking very generally true statements like “hiding things is bad” and applying them simplistically is folly. Be sure I do not have the magic formula, but in my opinion being aware there even IS a magic formula about things that seem pat, like “don’t hide things” is half the battle.

    In girls this can sow a rebelliousness that they will carry into marriage and drive a husband bat crap crazy with, or it can so turn them off that behavior they may find themselves in a dysfunction in how stridently they avoid ever voicing anything at all because they don’t want to see their husband put in stress like their dad was.

    In boys, where I actually see the echoes of this stuff more plainly perhaps because they are boys, one son gets extremely tense when he hears her challenge me on this type of nonsense stuff. he is at the stage where i was 10 years ago, reacting harshly right off the bat because he assumes she is making a pedantic challenge no matter what she asks. I have a great rapport with him and do post mortem discussions with him and hope he grows beyond this. I also do not tolerate any of them back talking mom beyond what I consider reasonable discourse given their age. So he is pinched up by all that, darned if he does/doesn’t. He HATES any kind of conflict and I’m sad to say that we are largely at fault for this because we had lots of conflict I the years before when I would go into irritated mode instantly. I didn’t not have to develop game in order to reach the point where I just want her not to create the whole scenario. In fact sometimes I am openly wry about it, dismissing her with a teasing joke and everyone laughs. I sometimes milk one of these events for days of jokes.

    Didnt mean to head down this path but I always enjoy finding things that show how taking the position in a certain way is not saying there is an exception to the rule (in this case hiding is lying or generally wrong) when its the premise that is flawed

  14. Caspar Reyes:
    That is exactly true. The Bitches tell us repeatedly that ‘there should be no secrets between us’ but a man surrendering any intimate details to one is like giving her a weapon that she’ll later aim at his own head.

  15. Pingback: This Week in Reaction | The Reactivity Place

  16. Yes, almost all women are extremely contentious almost all the time, and of those, they are most especially so towards their husbands, the very men they lyingly claim to feel love for. Rest assured that whenever a woman contends, she feels actual hatred, just like her voice and actions imply. Especially if she’s a believer and has acknowledged, sometime in the past obviously, knowing that she should stifle it and submit, then every single time she’s being contentious she’s doing it willfully and spitefully out of feelings of hate. Know that.

    The Bible recommends Dread as a reaction. Show her that the Bible says it is better for the man to abandon dwelling with a contentious wife. Save up some money, telling her what you are doing, and up and leave her. Maybe she’s wake up and back down, but probably not. Too bad.

  17. @jf12:

    You seem to imply that a well intentioned Christian wife should be discarded if she expresses any human frailty and sins. That’s absurd, and it’s equally absurd that all women are contentious towards their jusbands at all times. The hyperbole has gotten old.

  18. jf12& Elspeth:
    The problem is that women in our culture are educated and conditioned to hate men; therefore they would be contentious to their husbands at all times, out of hatred. The solution is not to discard a wife like that, but not marry one in the first place. However, if a man marries and takes the ‘Red Pill’ afterwards, a divorce may be his best option to extricate himself from a suicidal course.

  19. You’re right-on Eric! Don’t marry in the first place. Women in our culture are conditioned to act disrespectfully toward men. This is “hyperbole”, this is reality.

  20. LOL. I often say women hate men in general, expect for the man banging her. Women freak, men tend to agree or remain silent…… kind of telling actually

  21. @Empath

    First I get all defensive immediately when a man 15 or so years my junior deigns offer words of wisdom like this. More on that in a moment. […] I am compelled add something and never let Cane feel he made a complete point, if for no other reason than to show that I’m 15 years older hence I have to be wiser in one way or another.

    Haha! If it makes you feel better, Our 20th anniversary is this year, and today is our oldest’s 19th birfday. I’m right on your heels, in family years.

    This , the bold part of what Cane said is EXACTLY! what is happening in my situation. I’m glad you wrote that Cane. It was not quite that this was happening and I didn’t know it until you said it. Its more that when I “avoid” (lack better word) things, at that moment in time my heart (Oy, I don’t even like THAT word to describe this)….my gut….whatever…is precisely about keeping her out of trouble for her own good. I am very much aware I am doing exactly what you said when I am doing it, I just didn’t think to write that in my post, mainly because I really didn’t want to make it about me so I didn’t think it through as to how some may react to it here.

    That comment was meant to support your post; not challenge it. I was feelin’ you, dog. Hence, it was directed not at you, but at the magic answer of “don’t hide things from your wife”. It does take decades to know when confront, hide, encourage, tease, etc. And every wife’s required husbandry is different, even if they basically work the same way. Our house–like many houses–has a finite amount of space, but it is occupied by a people who believe those boundaries approach infinity. So I make things just disappear. On the rare occasion when I am asked about it directly, if I recall, then I’ll gladly admit I threw it out and note that it wasn’t missed for six months.

    But until then I ain’t saying a thing. I don’t have to. It’s my house.

  22. Women freak, men tend to agree or remain silent…… kind of telling actually

    I assume the comment about women “freaking” was in response to my comment. I didn’t “freak”. I don’t “freak”. It’s not in my DNA, to be honest.

    But I do feel fairly comfortable saying what I think and I think on a Christian blog it’s acceptable for someone (even a woman) to point out how ridiculous it is to counsel that a man should divorce his wife because she is being difficult, and it’s also hyperbole to assert that wives are always contentious and difficult. It just is.

  23. If women did not freak, then men would be less silent. If women were not contentious, then men would be less silent. If women did not “opinionate”, men would be less silent. If women were not unsubmissive, men would not have to close off discussion. If a man was ever once in his whole life given a reason to believe his woman wouldn’t be so mean and hateful, then a man would be less silent to her.

  24. lol….. I keep reading on the interwebz about how those women exist Elspeth, but have yet to run into one in the real world.

  25. sfcton:
    “I’ve yet to run into one in the real world.”

    They exist, but you have to leave the Anglosphere to meet them.

    “Women hate men in general, except for the one banging her.”

    Generally she hates the one she’s having sex with most of all. Remember: she’s been taught by her femihag teachers that ‘all sex is rape.’ If you want to see proof of this; look at any divorce or false accusation case and observe the ruthlessness the woman displays in such proceedings.

  26. Elspeth:
    A man has a lot more to lose in a divorce or even in an unhappy marriage. Unfortunately, a man caught in that situation is probably best served by striking while the iron’s hot, where he’ll be in some position to protect himself from the inevitable.

  27. Eric “Generally she hates the one she’s having sex with most of all.” Oh, so close! What you should have said was “Always she primarily hates the one she OUGHT to be having sex with.”

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