Journey to the far side of the sun

The movie Doppelgänger, was released in 1969 in the U.S. with the title “Journey to the far side of the sun”.

In the film, a joint European-NASA mission to investigate a planet in a position parallel to Earth, behind the Sun, ends in disaster with the death of one of the astronauts (Hendry). His colleague (Thinnes) discovers that the planet is a mirror image of Earth.

Every time I get one of these marriage emails I wonder if what I see in the mirror is view into a world somewhere else that is exactly backwards of ours. I’m back on Jimmy Evans again, to start a new week. Today’s message is “A wife’s most important needs” (the link is to their home page).

The needs are:

Security

Women feel most secure in an environment where they are married to a sacrificial, sensitive man who loves her like Christ loved the church (see Ephesians 5).

Ive looked at Ephesians 5 a few times….I cannot even play one of those scrambled letter games and come up with “sensitive”. I know where they come up with “sacrificial”. Simply, Jesus. Of course. So, how does Evans say Jesus modeled behavior for husbands?

secure wives have husbands who say “You come before me, and you’ll never have to nag. You’ll never have to beg. Tell me once, and you’ll get it.” He sacrifices to meet her needs the same way Jesus sacrificed himself for us. [emphasis mine]

Would it be OK then if the overwhelmed husband told everyone to leave him alone while he went away out in the back yard and screamed,  “please take this cup-cake away from me!”?

Seriously. She needn’t ask again, she gets it the first time? Is it just me or is this escalating?

a husband who refuses to make her nag or beg—especially when it comes to romance. Being romantic by sending flowers or cards tells her that she is on your heart.

Flowers and cards. I’m starting to think frankincense and myrrh were picked up and Yigal’s Hallmark on the way into town, as much as these ministries seem to think they grease the skids of romance like nothing else. Most men seem to agree with me that if I started carding and flowering my wife as instructed it would get a reaction alright. “You realize you are gonna have to get all this to the curb on Wednesday right?”

Non-sexual touch

I had to learn to be affectionate with Karen…without groping or pinching. It didn’t come natural to me, but I finally understood affection was tremendously important to her. I had to change. When I changed, it changed our marriage.

Jimmy, not sure what to tell ya. If you were pinching and groping, well, yea, discontinuance is a marriage changer. It would also be advisable to stop poking, snapping her bra strap, giving her wedgies, tickling her, licking your finger and sticking it in her ears, pulling her hair, and loosening the salt shaker lid for a fit of maniacal laughter when she ruins another ear of corn.

Open and Honest Communication

After work, when she asks her husband about his day, she doesn’t want headlines. She doesn’t want grunts or groans. She wants details.

Peaceful Wife has an old post called “My Demon”, written by a guest. If most women were self aware and honest enough to admit it, what the writer describes there is what the wife is after with these demands for daily details. She explains that she was compelled to find issues with her husband, that she was compelled to reinforce her spiritual superiority and his fallibleness compared to hers. She was compelled to condemn and to nag…ultimately to fix him.

A quick poll of friends open enough to share confirmed for her that this demon seems to be camped out in married women. Keep that in mind when you read about this craving for open communication and then see the following…

This one is tricky. This pastor openly communicated to his wife that he’d had an affair in the past and sought her forgiveness. The media grabbed the story and reported it as him dying after willfully confessing to his flock. A few outlets got the story correct. he had confessed it to his wife. SHE, while he was not present, told the congregation herself, then when the pastor walked in she told him in front of them, “tell them what you told me”. his son punched him, his daughter berated him, his congregation yelled they forgave him, and he dropped dead on the spot.

Peaceful Wife’s husband “Respected Husband” wrote “The voice in his head” as a sort of bookend to her demon post. A quick poll of men found that we agree with what he said about the nature of thoughts flying through our heads and why we DO NOT want to lay it all out there daily.

Do you see bad synergy? Does the craving for communication, while certainly not always for nefarious reasons, take on a different flavor? Can you see how these main marriage ministries and the slant they operate with actually ministers to both men and women in a manner opposite of how the genders respectively need to be ministered to?

Lastly, Leadership

This doesn’t mean she wants to be dominated. She wants to be treated as an equal, but she also want her husband to be the loving initiator of the home when it comes to the children, romance, finances, and spiritual matters.              [ emphasis mine]

Look back at the first one. Security.

“Tell me once, and you’ll get it.”

Yessir, that’s leadership.

And if you don’t get this right ….

you’ll be sitting in a parked car on your old cul de sac, listening to the clinking of the cooling engine in the pickup truck that just parked in front of your old house, watching as your kids are tucked in one by one, and the ground floor lights switched off, leaving only the lamp in the master suite casting silhouettes, your fingers idly thumping the stack of Christian man-up books your pastor just gave you…..as you sing along with Sting…

That this is indifference
Was my invention
When everything I did
Sought your attention

You were my compass star
You were my measure
You were a pirate’s map
Of buried treasure

If this was all correct
The last thing I’d expect
The prosecution rests
It’s time that I confessed
I must have loved you

Man if that doesn’t piss you you are cold.

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28 thoughts on “Journey to the far side of the sun

  1. Empath, their advice is negatively affecting the situation. It would be better if they said nothing.
    Who was that decided that a woman’s vanity is of greater value than the health of a family?
    Pickup truck driver is not Daddy.

  2. Flowers and cards. I’m starting to think frankincense and myrrh were picked up and Yigal’s Hallmark on the way into town, as much as these ministries seem to think they grease the skids of romance like nothing else.

    I laughed.

    I have some more issues with Mr. Evans’ thoughts but I’ll refrain.

  3. Very funny, Empath. you know how the Lord Jesus Christ knows your every need, even before you do? That’s called being sensitive.

  4. Evans is one seriously clueless dude.

    “Non-sexual touch: I learned to be affectionate with Karen, without groping or pinching…” If I were married and my wife disliked intimate touching, I’d be wondering which bad-boy she was doing behind my back.

    “When I changed, it changed our marriage” Translation: she’s riding the Cock Carousel safely now with no fear of detection.

    I’m almost willing to bet that the next child they have won’t look like either of them—LOL

  5. Seriously? Are these “toilet bowl” cards and flowers?

    @Bobbye, and His bride is to be a pure spotless virgin who submits totally to her Master. Just because Jesus is sensitive to our desires doesn’t mean He’s obliged to meet them, just because He is sensitive to our needs doesn’t mean that He allows us to idolize them and place them higher than Him. Yes, Jesus meets all of our needs in His time, not according to our schedule. Yes, He is still sovereign. He knows us better than we know ourselves and treats us accordingly.

    Nagging Him doesn’t work either.

  6. “Tell me once, and you’ll get it.” Not even God is this way. It’s basic Christian teaching, taught in almost any church, that God gives three possible answers to any prayer: “Yes.” “No.” And, “Not now, later.” It is enough for the disciple to be like the teacher, not greater! I can’t outdo God.

  7. And there is always the problem have of confusing our emotional swings and desires for needs.

    Suppose I think I need a thing and my husband doesn’t see it that way. Then what?

  8. Speaking of pissed, I think you posted about Selah “Bless the Broken Road” a long time ago. I guess it went by me at the time. I was listening to it on our local radio station the other day and actually listened to the lyrics. I had always thought it was referring to the “broken road” that led to Jesus. It doesn’t:

    I set out on a narrow way
    Many years ago
    Hoping I would find true love
    Along the broken road

    But I got lost a time or two
    Wiped my brow, kept pushing through
    I couldn’t see how every sign
    Pointed straight to you

    But every long lost dream
    Led me to where you are
    Others who broke my heart
    They were just northern stars

    Pointing me on my way into your loving arms
    This much I know is true
    That God blessed the broken road
    That lead me straight to you

    I think about the years I spent
    Just passin’ through
    I’d like to take the time I lost
    And give it back to you

    But you just smile and take my hand
    You’ve been there, you understand
    It’s all part of a grander plan
    That is coming true

    That every long lost dream
    Led me to where you are
    Others who broke my heart
    They were just northern stars

    Pointing me on my way into your loving arms
    This much I know is true
    That God blessed the broken road
    That lead me straight to you
    Straight to you

    Now I’m just running home into my lover’s arms
    This much I know, I know it’s true
    That God blessed the broken road
    And led me straight to you
    Yes, God blessed the broken road
    And led me straight to you
    Straight to you

    Apparently the carousel is actually a vehicle (or in this case a broken road) that eventually get’s us to our “lover’s arms” and God approves and in fact blesses it. I about smashed the front of the radio when I realized what they were saying. I wonder how God feels.

  9. You know GIL, I’ve never really listened to that song very intently before. That’s something, because don’t they play that on Christian radio? I may be mistaken.

    I had to have a sit down with my girls recently when I got into my truck that they’d been driving and heard this little tune blaring form the CD player:

    http://rock.rapgenius.com/The-civil-wars-devils-backbone-lyrics

    No more Civil Wars, and they can toss that CD. At least they aren’t purporting to be Christian artists, but still. Sheesh.

  10. Regarding the peaceful house wife’s posts, My self confidence returned and the negative self talked ended quickly after I stopped listening to my wife and the church.

    Less of an attack of the enemy of our soul and more like your supposed friends are not your friends.

  11. Women feel most secure in an environment where they are married to a sacrificial, sensitive man who loves her like Christ loved the church (see Ephesians 5).

    Ive looked at Ephesians 5 a few times….I cannot even play one of those scrambled letter games and come up with “sensitive”.

    Re-imagining the word love away from what everything around us is saying (feelings, aka, sensitivity) and then towards what it is (actions) is mentally very challenging. My instinct is to say “sweet” even though I now know the flavor is actually “salty”.

    A professional marriage counselor ought not make my amateur mistakes, though.

  12. You know GIL, I just heard that song on the radio as I was driving. I always thought it had a nice melody, but I only ever really knew what the chorus said. (My 5 and 7 year olds both chatter incessantly in the car). I heard it through new ears today, and the message is specious.

    I’m wondering though. Is it possible they are referring to all the twists and turns one takes in the darkness before they find the light of Christ’s love? That certainly doesn’t make it right or good, as we should never spout heretical nonsense about our sins being some kind of blessing because they made us who we are. You know the spiel.

    But given the church’s reliance on the Personal Jesus approach to faith, a song like this one being popular isn’t very shocking.

  13. That’s the end result Emp. Step one is regulating the information/ intell you allow into your life. Turning off the TV is easy and the hostility is straightforward. Tuning out people who are supposed to be your freind or on your side is the more difficult part. That on occasions their criticism are accurate and helpful muddies up the water even more. Understanding your wife, pastor etc have their own agenda that’s more about persevering and ha ing control is a jagged part of the red pill to swallow. Leastwise that’s how I reckon things.

  14. My concern as usual is really that these measures are supposed to fix things, and that as usual there is no possibility that the wife just regrets the marriage, is selfish, foolish, vain or angry unjustly. There is no comment on the subject of a man trying these things and it not working because of the wife’s attitude or decisions. It’s like the advice from Polonius that sounds wise but is based on faulty assumptions.

  15. Sojourner

    That is why that MY Demon post resonated so much with me. Ive repeated many times a comment SSM made a year ago probably about how she fights the urge, whenever her husband is doing something that is totally unrelated to her agenda and endless worrying, she said she will be drawn to “approach him with a list”. Then I see Peaceful Wife and her post that another woman wrote, and her agreeing with the presence of that tendency, then her husband posting about men beating ourselves up with insecurities as we face the big wide world as adult men and workers and husbands and fathers.

    My life’s cumulative anecdotes agree fully with these observations.

    Then I see the church and these ministries doing 180 degrees opposite of addressing when some are admitting to be the issues and I’d bet that if big polling was done would be revealed to be typical. The church outreach is to help with women’s insecurity and to take men down a notch and get us focused on others needs. It isn’t just that it seems off to me. It seems off period. Telling men that the way to be a man of God with confidence is to be ever lower and ever sacrificial and ever more servanthood SEEMS biblical-ish. But like so many things its correct enough that challenging it seems like one is arguing in favor of puffed up overbearing men. We are stuck between two extremes that have been defined for us, and the margins, where we may be able to find the problem, are land mined.

  16. I dunno, I guess I always was under the impression that Jesus was God. Maybe boyfriend Jesus isn’t. If it is talking about finding Jesus how do we take this stanza:

    “But I got lost a time or two
    Wiped my brow, kept pushing through
    I couldn’t see how every sign
    Pointed straight to you”

    We get to boyfriend Jesus by our own hard work and dedication? When I was lost, I was lost, when I was rebellious I knew right where I was and where Jesus was. Who get’s “lost a time or two”? You may be right Elspeth, that it is just riddled with heresy. It sounds like a song about the carousel and I would argue that this is worse if it is a spiritual carousel rather than a physical. Churchianity conflates the two anyway.

    Jesus, women’s partner in romance.

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  18. There is a woman in my Bible Study group who is struggling in her marriage who used to be a feminist. What I find interesting is that he deliberately chose to go to a male led church, deliberately chooses submission in marriage and finds it hard. I think that Christians generally lovethe idea of Christianity “working”, as though that should mean you have a great life. And I don’t think living a life off faith precludes that but it is also not a condition. Other people still have their choices and struggles. Christ was good, but was disobeyed, disagreed with, falsely accused, betrayed, abandoned. The world hated him before it hated us, so why do these well meaning but false teachers tell us such lies?

    I’m sure they believe these lies. A woman became so angry she screamed at me in our church because I was teaching children on Luke 14, which contains the verses “if anyone comes to me and does not hate mother and father, wife and children, brothers and sitters, yea even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.” these are hard words. Of course if we love Christ first then we will imitate him and love as he did, but they are hard words nevertheless. It is hard to learn to live by them. My own truggles with sin have been largely because I struggled and failed to understand them. So this I think is why these bad teachings are so pervasive. We should be angry with the false teaching but understand that if Christianity were easy everyone would easily worship God.

  19. I think it makes it harder because it obscures the truth and requires us to work even harder to perceive that truth. As empath says it SOUNDS good and speaking against it sounds bad. It makes it sound like we are men who are uncaring towards women.

  20. A woman became so angry she screamed at me in our church because I was teaching children on Luke 14, which contains the verses “if anyone comes to me and does not hate mother and father, wife and children, brothers and sitters, yea even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.” these are hard words. Of course if we love Christ first then we will imitate him and love as he did, but they are hard words nevertheless. It is hard to learn to live by them.

    Sadly (and I probably don’t really need to say this to the regulars of the Christian manosphere), this woman’s outburst is not an aberration. One of the most destructive aspects of contemporary churchianity is the tacitly accepted implication that the choice to follow Jesus is a choice that is free of any painful sacrifices or insecurities, free of any need to change one’s view of the world in which one lives, and free of any undue burdens that would make one stand out from the wider culture. In simpler terms, “cheap grace” is supposed to be the norm. It also doesn’t help matters that “Bible study” in most churches today focuses on everything but the Bible. Most people don’t get even an introduction to what the Scriptures actually say (like Jesus’s admonition in Luke 14 above, which, if most people read and understood it, would make them really understand what sacrifices they are called upon to make once they commit to following Christ), let alone examine them in any depth.

  21. I think that most churchgoers barely know what the Bible contains. Perhaps at one time in our history that was not as shameful as now, since in most of Christian history not many people could read the language in which the Bible was written, but now there is very little excuse for not reading it, not even time since you can have it on tape or on your iphone. My pastor often says that people read more about the Bible and people’s opinions on it than the Bible itself–if that.

  22. It sounds like a song about the carousel and I would argue that this is worse if it is a spiritual carousel rather than a physical. Churchianity conflates the two anyway.

    We agree.

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  24. Re: “We are stuck between two extremes that have been defined for us, and the margins, where we may be able to find the problem, are land mined.” Men are immobilized, and silenced. In other words, mission accomplished.

  25. A lot of the frustration and confusion of the average man is I think the result of having few clear paths on what is good to do. This is why some of that frustration is vented towards women, who are similarly confused but are at least being told that they are generally good. Someone once w
    ittily commented on how there were several Disney heroines in the 90s who wanted ‘more’. These heroines are generally princesses or at the very least have very pleasant lives, and the ‘more’ they are talking about is a magical fantastic excitement about life that they have no intention of establishing for themselves–they just want it to happen.

    So when even in the Church there is very little talk about the sin of Eve, of course it is frustrating. However men need to recognize that even as this is one more thing piled upon them, at the same time we as men let this happen. We gave women equality without responsibility, and this is the result. What led to this was chivalry.

    But what was chivalry? I don’t mean the chivalry of the Middle Ages, which was essentially a sort of military ethic. I mean the chivalry of the 19th Century. Think about what this entailed.

    Before the Industrial Revolution, men and women had divided labour. Women’s work was WORK–women made their own household cleaners, they wove cloth, they brewed, they baked, they kept houses clean, children fed and hygienic, often were nurses and midwives as necessity dictated. The Proverbs 31 Wife was a necessary part of civilization. This made sense–generally women tend to be not quite as strong as men, they tend to be more vulnerable when pregnant and they tend to be necessary to the rearing of smaller children. This division of labour was as much biological as it was traditional.

    The 19th Century was the first really challenging era to this–labour saving devices were growing in numbers, and you can see how instructions to a Medieval wife were largely about the purchase of raw materials she would work with at home or with a few local craftsmen; by the end of the 19th it was all about what she was supposed to buy. Furthermore, the labour saving devices for industry and agriculture, even for war were growing as well, making the physical strength and risk factor minimized too. In short: the gap between men and women’s work narrowed.

    The chivalry of the 19th Century, I believe, is something the Middle and Upper Classes practiced to keep that divide artificially in place. Since you couldn’t really say that women couldn’t work alongside men (which lower class women did in the mines and factories) you could talk about men and women’s natures. The thing is though, they got it wrong. The idea of women being good might have worked then, when there were still lots of rules in place, but what it really did was confuse people. So of course when it was pointed out that it wasn’t fair that women should be excluded from government men bowed to this, ultimately, in the false belief that women did not, as various classes and races had had to in the past, have to challenge the order of the day with violence., women were simply given equality as a result of protest. Now yes, I know that vigorous protests were made, that women did challenge through work done in the World Wars and so on, but it is not really comparable. For example slaves in the United States had to generation by generation lay down their lives in combat before their acceptance as equals even was seriously considered. Massive riots, wide spread strikes, revolutions were necessary before the rights of workers were given serious consideration. Every opppressed class or race in the world has revolted violently at least once–except women. Women have no general history of revolution as a ‘class’, which to me suggests strongly that they are not one.

    So women in our culture with relatively little strife were simply granted full citizenship, I believe essentially based on two ideas–that women are essentially good and require no civilizing, and that women need to be protected and responded to favourably.

    One of the other reasons I strongly believe for why men and women had division of labour is this: women tend to be more selfish than men. Men tend to be more violent, but women do tend to be more selfish and materialistic. This is why shopping malls are geared towards women rather than men.

    And hence the frustration–enormous effort goes into curbing men’s violence, so that there are very few legal avenues for it–even defending your home in some places is something to do at risk of being jailed. But women’s selfishness is not curbed, in fact it is encouraged.

    So of course men are frustrated–they are fenced in and reduced in legal power, while women have enormous license. And I think that men coming out of the haze of believing in women’s innate goodness are the most bitter. Those who have accepted that women are simply people and that they have general bad traits they share with men as well as ones that tend to be more specific to women are in a better position to figure out what they want to do about it.

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