The missing resolution

Jimmy Evans of Marriage Builders has shared his list of ideal New Years resolutions for the purpose of improving your marriage.

How would we like to see our marriage improve? How can we grow closer to each other? How can we draw closer to God as a couple?

Then make a list of actions you will take to make those things happen. Here are a few ideas. Perhaps in 2014 you could…

•Pray together on a daily basis.
• Read a passage of Scripture together every night before bed.
• Read part of a marriage improvement book together each night.
• Spend 15-20 minutes talking each day.
• Kiss each other at least three times every day.
• Hug each other for 30 seconds every morning and every night.
• Schedule a date night together at least once a month.
• Put away your smart phones every night after work.
• Get involved in a marriage small group.
• Attend a marriage seminar or retreat at least once this year.
• Serve together at your church or a local ministry once a month.

There is nothing wrong with anything on the list. There is nothing wrong with everything on the list. But, do you notice anything odd about the list?

Some of the things on the list, like reading your bible and praying, are good Christian practices in general. And it is absolutely true that having God involved in your marriage is a good thing. But it has become a throw away line. When someone says “you gotta have God at the center of your marriage” what do they really mean? They mean, very specifically, read scripture, read some Christian marriage books, attend some Christian married groups, and pray, all with your spouse. I cannot necessarily disentangle those things from having God at the center of your marriage, nor, however, can I necessarily make them be the same thing…meaning, one can do all that and either have God at the center of your marriage, OR, have this list at the center of your marriage. And who likes this list….A LOT?

Women.

How about the other things. Date night? A kiss? A hug? Talking? Sure men like all those things, but these are there on the list for her. And every one of them can be done with someone else other than your spouse, though admittedly the kissing is of a different nature.

Men, sorry, sex didn’t make the cut again for 2014. Its just too risky for a national ministry to put that out there. It invites, “but, but, but, what if she was in a skiing accident and her knee is shattered”. Well, good point….what if.

This visage of the beta man, the servant leader, the kind gentile compassionate scripture quoting hand holding hugging singing prayer warrior of a diaper changing and domestic chore champion man…the one that Christian women say they want in a man….that guy….I figured out this past weekend watching all the couples at the holiday gatherings I attended, women want to see other men that way, and they want to hold it over their own spouse as nothing more than a shit test, but they no more want that kind of a man than I want a walrus for a wife.

And the church is so desperate to do something, anything, to try and pander juuuuuuust enough more to women to finally be able to say that they have led men to the promised land of marital bliss.

My advice, do those things if you want, but do them for the Lord, and for the Lord only if you do them at all. That will put God ion the center faster than any bullet point challenge made by some prattling evangelical.

 

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36 thoughts on “The missing resolution

  1. When I was studying WWI, I shook my head reading of how some British members of the high command refused to accept what most of us think looking at the standard tactics and the huge casualties—that they needed to seriously change the way that they fought the war. If they lost 20,000 casualties in a single action, they wouldn’t think “My God, this just isn’t working!” They would think “if people followed the proper schedules, it would have worked.” And of course some actions did work, there were some successes, and so there was the feeling that if only everyone did things properly, the strategy would succeed.

    This is no different. 35-65% casualties (ie divorce rate) is like WWI. Like an almost guarantee of failure, of the death of relationships. Just as with WWI there is just enough success to give false hope.

    Just as in WWI there was a refusal on the part of the high command of the French and British Armies to recognize that the technology of the time made their tactics obsolete, the same applies here. A refusal to recognize that changed laws, changes economics, changed social climate as a result has in turn changed the way that people marry. And that one of the simple pivotal issues is that a woman can change how she feels about a relationship and as a result end it. It won’t matter what the guy does—he can be the most Bible believing, kind, fatherly, loverly, financie supporting guy on Earth—and it won’t matter if she doesn’t feel like being married. On the other hand, if a woman feels like supporting a guy who spends her money on drugs, tattoos and booze, hits her now and then and sometimes just vanishes for weeks at a time—she will. We all know this, but it’s not politically correct to say it, as though somehow saying that women are capable of being stupid about relationships just as men are is somehow degrading to women.

    What men are not being told is that having integrity has to come first regardless of how women feel, and that that is how we must understand Ephesians 5. It is very telling that there are people claiming to be Christians who will not even hear of this being discussed.

  2. This visage of the beta man, the servant leader, the kind gentile compassionate scripture quoting hand holding hugging singing prayer warrior of a diaper changing and domestic chore champion man…the one that Christian women say they want in a man….that guy….I figured out this past weekend watching all the couples at the holiday gatherings I attended, women want to see other men that way, and they want to hold it over their own spouse as nothing more than a shit test, but they no more want that kind of a man than I want a walrus for a wife.

    Many LOLs over your wording here…and you’re so right.

    I would like to see a list like this that emphasizes the importance of physical intimacy and clearly states that having sex should not contingent upon the husband doing the dishes first.

  3. Sojourner:
    That’s an excellent analysis. Marriage, like chivalry, worked when women had codes of honor and marriage responsibilities to live up to as well. Now, like WW1, men just run into the ‘Meat Grinder’ and ‘The Red Lanes’ with no hope of actual success.

    It might have made sense to be a White Knight when women were worth fighting for and defending. But a White Knight today just goes out to fight dragons while the damsels screw the jesters behind his back.

  4. I would like to see a list like this that emphasizes the importance of physical intimacy and clearly states that having sex should not contingent upon the husband doing the dishes first.

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for it, Sunshine. Ain’t gonna happen.

    Further, that description of “desirable manhood” that you quoted from Empath’s post? It is so NOT alluring. I marvel that any red blooded woman can pretend with a straight face to want that.

    I’ll keep my caveman thankyouverymuch.

  5. Elspeth & SSM:
    I’m curious about what you are both saying here. Over the Holidays, I got to see a lot of women with their new boyfriends, husbands &c. I actually can’t say that I saw any Alphas or Betas among these men: mostly they fit the Omega or Zeta archetypes.

    I keep reading through the Manosphere that women find things like ‘manly alpha leaders’ and ‘the importance of intimacy’ attractive and alluring in men. But honestly, I can’t say that, outside of the Internet, I see the slightest evidence of that.

    I don’t even mean the kind of men that Empath described in the quote above, either. The kinds of men I observe women actually choosing for ‘partners’ are the kinds who wouldn’t/couldn’t do housework, simply because they lack both the initiative and intelligence. These guys are positively worthless. They don’t treat their women well—either in the alpha or beta sense—they’re chronically unemployed and unemployable; in and out of jails and rehabs continually; they aren’t even handsome or intelligent guys: yet all the evidence seems to be that women—generally—can’t seem to control themselves around these kinds of men. And the numbers of single guys I encountered over the holidays—exactly the opposites of the types I just described—indicates that this phenomenon isn’t happening because of a lack of female options.

    I would like to hear some female commenters’ opinions on this—because the reality seems to be the opposite of what I’m reading. A few years ago, when I decided to drop out of the relationship/dating market, this was the reason why did. I couldn’t see the slightest reason to continue pursuing women who weren’t interested in anybody but creeps anyway.

    If I’m wrong about this, I’d really like to hear why.

  6. I would like to hear some female commenters’ opinions on this—because the reality seems to be the opposite of what I’m reading. A few years ago, when I decided to drop out of the relationship/dating market, this was the reason why did. I couldn’t see the slightest reason to continue pursuing women who weren’t interested in anybody but creeps anyway.

    I said this on my blog recently Eric, and it’s true. I have been blessed to be related to outstanding, masculine, hard working men who raised daughters that would hate to disappoint their fathers by bringing home riff raff.

    I attended 3 very large family gatherings over the holidays, with multiple generations of couples present. And I just didn’t see what you did. Given my ethnicity and background, that is a fairly stark contrast to what you witnessed.

    With the exception of one of my brothers, who has always struggled with all kinds of issues the men I saw were at least minimally acceptable. Even among the younger women in attendance who were with men I wouldn’t have chosen, the men were all employed, many in trades rather than white collar stuff, but they had jobs.

  7. @Eric:
    “And the numbers of single guys I encountered over the holidays—exactly the opposites of the types I just described—indicates that this phenomenon isn’t happening because of a lack of female options.”

    @Eric:
    “These guys are positively worthless.
    …yet all the evidence seems to be that women—generally—can’t seem to control themselves around these kinds of men.”

    What do you mean by can’t seem to control themselves? That they choose to be with them? That they’re sexually charged and oozing around them? That they throw caution to the wind in their presence?

    Are you friends with the women you spoke of? I’m wondering if you might overate THEIR level? Perhaps these guys that you describe partnered up with these girls because they were the best option available to them? It’s very possible that you’ve overestimated the female’s attractiveness…
    Otherwise I agree with you that it’s not logical.

    @Eric:
    “I keep reading through the Manosphere that women find things like ‘manly alpha leaders’ and ‘the importance of intimacy’ attractive and alluring in men.”

    The operative word is LIKE. What a woman would like is one thing, what is offered for her to choose from is another.

  8. Good to read more of your comments Hannah; I thought you were “gone”.

    I suspect that negative perceptions come into play as well. Men and women have become accustomed to seeing negative in the other gender, albeit there is much negativity within human nature and human behavior. Hence our hope and joy in our Savior.

    In regards to Empath’s post, it is sad that virtually all the focus in church is for the ladies at the expense of the men. Just a red pill truth.

    I hope you all have a blessed year…….

  9. Eric may have overstated the case about women in numbers chasing thugs. The dynamic is real, Ive not seen it as normative. However, like rape fantasy, I think the thug infatuation is there in more women than act on it, peer pressure or societal expectations holding them back, all that. Its why if you take some gals on a girls trip to Cancun or something, married, mid 30’s, some of them will end up under a thug on the beach in the wee hours. No one will ever know….all that.
    It neednt be psychopaths, they may just be unemployed and layabout, or “works with his hands” even if he has no actual business (I’m not disparaging tradesmen). Ive seen separated or divorced middle aged women with kids hanging with men who have zero resources but good tats and muscles, stuff like that.
    And these are often the very women Driscoll is on about the men marrying.

  10. I believe there is a cultural thrust for both men and women to readily view men negatively, especially in church. If a single man with a noticeable tattoo walks into a restaurant by himself and sits next to a table of “respectable” looking folks, those respectable looking folks might view the man as a predator or something. But a single woman would not be ostracized. Or am I wrong?

  11. vascularity777, hi and thanks and I am pretty much ‘out’… I’ve commented seldom since those very thought-provoking discussion here a month or so ago about the value of women being here. I’ve been thinking about it often, but haven’t quite exited yet!

    Eric, just in case I wasn’t clear in my questions, what I really want to understand is what makes these men seem “positively worthless” to you?

    From your description:
    They lack both the initiative and intelligence.
    They don’t treat their women well
    They’re chronically unemployed and unemployable; in and out of jails and rehabs continually;
    They aren’t even handsome or intelligent guys

    From that, these guys might be thugs – in which case they’re unlikely to be Omegas/Zetas as you describe.
    When I think of an Omega I imagine an apathetic man, mild mannered or maybe melancholic, someone passive, not driven to action. When I first read your comment, I thought you were saying most women you come across are coupled up with guys like this. This makes me confused because I can’t imagine women being unable to control themselves around such a man.
    Now I’m wondering if you see women with underbelly Alpha/Sigma types?

  12. Elspeth:
    “I’ve been blessed to be related by outstanding masculine hard-working men who raised daughters who would hate to disappoint their fathers by bringing home riff-raff.”

    But if you look at current US demographics, the majority of women under 30 or so grow up in homes without a father. I think according to the last census, less than 1/4 of girls under 12 have their biological father at home. In the case of today’s women, the only male role models they’ve seen are the scumbags their bitter, cougarish moms have drug home; and the bozos they see in the mass media.

  13. “The value of women here ”

    That is an interesting thought to ponder. I for one do not have an issue with ladies in the manosphere. We learn from one another. I imagine that at least a few men would prefer that these blogs be for men only so we have our own space, away from women, to discuss. SSM is an example of a woman who provides much for the betterment of others (at least that is my take).For me, if I do not “like” the poster I can just pass that comment and read the next, so no harm can be done in this format.
    I’ve commented to both women and men on these blogs, without any concerns. Hannah, when you left last month there was another post about men needing to be careful in our communications with married women. I did not know if that pertained to you as the timing seemed to indicate to me that it might have been. As I see the issue, if a woman is choosing to comment in the manosphere, then she is “fair-game” to be communicated with, with the same expectation of respect, and with the same realistic understanding that she might get spoken to in a harsh manner. I believe I am respectful of all, but sometimes I “answer back”.
    Anyway, you for one, Hannah, add much and I hope you remain. Perhaps your husband would join you in these thought provoking discussions??
    According to my observations, many here in the mansophere have been through hell on Earth. Some men are completely overlooked by women when these men would make outstanding husbands and fathers. Perhaps Eric, perhaps not?? Some men here have been treated like shit by their wives. That can be life altering, especially when there is a shared child.
    I am on a rant. I was lazy with my squats today. I prefer upper body workouts. If it were possible I would invite you Emp readers to my house for a party. Is there a party app out there that we can use?

  14. Hannah:
    How I would define an ‘Alpha’ would be the operative question here. I don’t think that women’s opinion of a man makes him an ‘alpha’ at all: an alpha leader is judged by the respect of the men around him. Women raised like Elspeth describes her own upbringing are naturally going to be attracted to such men.

    But that’s not the type of men I see most women attracted to. The types of men I’m describing are the types any decent man would go out of his way to avoid; let alone follow or respect. As an example, look at some of the polls I’ve referenced on female choices for male sex symbols. Could you imagine any ‘real man’ hanging around with the likes of Justin Bieber or Robert Pattison? Not to mention the collection of ordinary street criminals who seem to have very little problem attracting harems of adoring females.

    To give a personal story, I remember one of my ex-girlfriends, who was a single mother, left me for a guy who she knew to be a registered sex offender. I looked up his record in the county jail; he’d been arrested 107 times in our county alone. Even though he and I are about the same age, he looks 20 years older than me; has tattoos all over his body and stunk like a goat. But guess what? He has 5 known kids by 3 different women. How he became a registered sex offender was when his 19 y/o girlfriend—with whom he was living—caught him in bed with her 16 y/o sister.

    This is ONE specimen of many, but a prime example of the kinds of men us ‘normal’ single guys can’t ‘measure up to’.

    But women clearly throw at these kinds of men: or else how do they meet them?

  15. Empath:
    “The dynamic is real, I’ve not seen it as normative.”

    If you were still single, you would see it as normative. A lot of married guys don’t notice it as much because they are always focused one female (their wives). Single guys’ ‘radar’ is just attuned a little differently LOL

  16. Eric,

    The reason you do not understand why some women go after those types of men is because you have forgotten a fundamental truth – that all men and women have a sinful nature. Does the sinful nature naturally like what is good? Alas, in our very base natures, we are inclined towards wickedness. Most people agree with it on an intellectual level, but do not have a true spiritual understanding. If not, why be surprised when a (naturally evil) woman likes the traits of a (naturally evil) man (and vice versa)? Is it not what we ought to expect? The only reason why people have any measure of goodness is because of the conscience God gave us, a conscience that has been increasingly corrupted and perverted since the fall of man, and at varying levels between individuals. And the only reason why some people have a less corrupted conscience is because of the grace of God. Those who are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit also aided by it.

    Many in the “manosphere” have gone too far in treating what women like as a measuring stick of how men ought to act in order to be more attractive to women (now your idol). This is wrong. It may be coincidentally right in some cases, but only the scriptures ought to dictate how we act. If it so happened that all women only wanted foul-mouthed, arrogant, and violent men – should we imitate such men, even if it became the only avenue of attracting a wife? The answer is obviously no in this extreme example. But isn’t it true that in less extreme examples (but still wrong), we let down our guard of what is right and wrong? For example a “Christian” woman (man) on the manosphere states what she likes from a man/husband (wife), isn’t it true that we are inclined to automatically assume that the desired behaviour is okay? It might actually really be okay, but because we are not first focused on Christ, it is already a perversion on our faith. We all love to believe we place God first, but I think women have taken that place, even in the manosphere. Isn’t it also true that we have placed masculinity and “alphaness” as most important? For example, what do you think would be the reaction if a man quoted ‘1 Corinthians 13:4-7’ in reference to how we ought to act? Probably not much of a reaction, but I can guarantee many (men and women) will likely dismiss the man in their hearts as probably a bit of a “beta schmuck”. It seems anyone can quote scripture, but you only gain respect by discussing high sounding (and empty) philosophy and ideas, this is easily observable. In their heart of hearts, they have more respect for the so-called and worldly intelligentsia than their own brothers and sisters in Christ. Though saved, still living in the flesh, what a pity.

    Finally, a very important reason why many still don’t understand why women like bad men is because they simply cannot accept it. That reality is too terrifying to accept even for the “red pill man”. If it is true women like evil men then what does it mean for the Christian man? The true Christian cannot bring himself to imitate evil, what then, shall he be alone? This is a sacrifice most cannot come to terms with. But remember, you are only a foreigner in this world, and all will come to pass quickly. The truth is, today, most women (not all) do like men with the dark triad traits and worse. Some, fearful of admitting this truth, pretend it is only a matter of needing to be more confident and assertive (which I agree we men should be). But you and I know this is simply not the case for most women today, as you have shown in your own examples of girls going after thuggish men.

    It is foretold in the scriptures people will be increasingly wicked and selfish. To those Christians contemplating how to “fix” feminism, I say you are an utter fool. Will you also figure out how to delay or stop the coming of the Antichrist and the end of days? One, the Bible says so – people will become increasingly worse, not better, unless you call God a liar. Secondly, what good does it do a sinner that he/she is rid of feminism but still bound for hell? Should the gospel not be spread to others before edifying them with your “knowledge”? The Lord’s final command before his ascension:

    “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

    While we should all be aware of worldly matters and feminism and helping others out from this snare, it is not our priority, and has only become a distraction to our true goal in this life. We will all be judged or rewarded one day, and it will not be based on how many theories you came with or blog posts you’ve made. I am not saying that there is no place for discussion of these issues (I have gained valuable insight from it, and I am certainly not taking aim at this site), but it is apparent that some seem to think being an anti-feminist is equivalent of being a good Christian. I would encourage my brothers and sisters to walk in the spirit of David and Paul:

    My heart is not proud, Lord,
    my eyes are not haughty;
    I do not concern myself with great matters
    or things too wonderful for me.
    But I have calmed and quieted myself,
    I am like a weaned child with its mother;
    like a weaned child I am content.
    Israel, put your hope in the Lord
    both now and forevermore.

    Psalms 131

    And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified . I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling . My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power .

    1 Corinthians 2:1-5

  17. Hi Eric,

    Thanks for your answer, I appreciate the clarification.

    @Eric:
    “an alpha leader is judged by the respect of the men around him.”
    and
    “The types of men I’m describing are the types any decent man would go out of his way to avoid; let alone follow or respect.”
    “Could you imagine any ‘real man’ hanging around with the likes of Justin Bieber or Robert Pattison? Not to mention the collection of ordinary street criminals…”

    Right, I agree with you on the way you assess an Alpha leader. It’s not the ladies who decide, but the men. But it’s very important to realise that not all men are associating with ‘decent’ men who can judge good character.
    So in the examples you give, firstly with famous singers and actors – these men ARE being followed and respected by a group of wannabe friends.
    Similarly with the street criminals, they have a group of followers who admire/fear/respect/submit to the guy they see as above them.
    The followers give these guys the Alpha/Sigma status, and it’s no less real of a dynamic than in the Alpha sorting of more honourable groups of men.
    So it really comes down to whereabouts women are meeting men. Whatever group a female associates with, that’s the dynamic she’s going to be affected by. She’ll have her eyes set on an Alpha Lion or Sigma Wolf from within the life she is living.

    At least that’s the way it appears to me!

  18. Vascularity777, thanks for your encouragement…
    I still haven’t completely wrapped my head around the whole thing, but mostly it’s been more than a little convicting recently thinking about the time I spend recharging my counter-culture energies here when my whole family enjoy talking about such things in real life! Am I simply being greedy being here? Maybe.
    And then I wonder if it’s not pride that let’s me imagine I have something extra to offer here by way of observation, am I that vain to think if I don’t write, that everyone won’t get the big picture?! Yes perhaps I am. Yikes.
    Here’s the particular comment by ‘You Have My Permission’ that I have considered often since:

    @You Have My Permission:
    “Having said that, I suspect not all Christian women are like that. The problem is, if they existed, you would hardly know it, because a gentle and humble spirit would likely not be making sure everyone knows their opinion on a blog. I also doubt a spiritual husband in charge would want their wives spending their time absorbing all sorts of rubbish, empty philosophies and talking to other random men on the internet.”

    That paragraph made me nod in agreement and cringe at the same time.

    And then this from Eric –

    @Eric:
    “I find it strange that they don’t set up some kind of parallel to it for women.
    To explain, while Hannah & Elspeth & others make some good points, what we men read are basically things we already agree with coupled with a certain longing that more women aren’t like them. But what does it accomplish? You see my point here—it would do them more good to try and reform women than support men.
    Of course, though, as Laura Grace Robbins once told me—real NAWALT and Red Pill women are so rare, they have to come to the Manosphere just to get away from the smothering atmosphere of feminism—that’s very likely true, but the women should remember that the same smothers us men as well!”

    This is a fair point to consider.
    I won’t join some kind of parallel for women, because where women lead, all goes to hell! Women need men around to keep them in line. Same is not true of the reverse. Not to mention that my thoughts are likely to be dismissed online as being too radical and therefore not from a real human being! In real life, I am constantly the thorn in women’s sides – pointing out the anti-biblical feminism in ordinary conversations. My views are met with much blocking, but at very least, the ladies I stand in front of can’t question my being authentic!
    The last thought from Laura Grace that Eric wrote of is the reason I come here – for a breath of fresh air. To be in agreement with the majority rather than the annoying little voice of logic in a room drenched in feminine empathy.
    But I know that I don’t NEED to be in agreement with the majority, I just need to stay prepared to speak the unpopular truth, in and out of season. Being a voice of reason in a circle of feelings keeps me humble because I’m often considered strange and wrong! Being here may just wind up puffing me up, and that can’t be good.

    Also thanks for the suggestion, but my man won’t be joining in here or anywhere else online! He will discuss these things person to person, but is not remotely interested in sitting in front of a computer 🙂 He is a good man, and worthy of the handshake you said you’d like to give him – thanks. He would enjoy talking with you in real life too. He’s ok with me being in these discussions and is interested to hear about them, but I’m wondering if it’s not so much that he allows me here, but that he indulges my selfish ‘want’ to be here. Overall I know I’m best serving my husband elsewhere in the house at any given moment so am wondering if perhaps it’s time to bid farewell. Hence the recent weaning process 🙂

    (Apologies Empathalogism for the topic derail!)

  19. ‘You Have My Permission’ – Thanks for posting Psalm 131, I just read your insightful comment and that verse fairly leaped out at me.

    Blessings in Yeshua, Hannah

  20. I have certainly seen my share of women attaching themselves to thugs, Eric. It just isn’t something I see as the normative, preferred course of behavior amongst the women (even the young ones).

    Re 1 Corinthians 13:4-7:

    I’ve given this passage a lot of thought in light of the discussions here and I wonder if our modern, overly sensitive interpretation of those words are what make some dismiss men who comport themselves this way as “beta shmucks”.

    I am married to a very strong, no-nonsense kind of man, not given to tolerating much foolishness from me. And yet, I think his behavior toward me is mostly long suffering, kind,and lacking rudeness, No envy, not puffed up or prideful, etc. He’s not a believer in “game” as it were and thinks the “red pill” is what used to be known as common sense.

    The issue is how we define love which is mostly “love assuages feelings.” I submit that 1 Corinthians 13 implies nothing of the sort. It took me a while to figure this out but there is nothing loving nor kind about allowing those in your charge to blindly and blissfully traipse onto a sinful path in the name of love.

  21. You have my permission…
    Excellent comment, and a good derail Hannah, not a problem. I want to comment about it a bit more later. Have to watch 8 year olds play basketball. Yeah!

  22. Elspeth:
    “he’s not a believer in Game and thinks the red pill is what used to be called common sense.”

    I agree with your husband, and from your description, that’s the kind of husband I would be if I were married.

    But according Dalrock, nearly 40% of Christian marriages end in divorce. You see how highly most Christian women value that kind of man (i.e., not at all).

    Therein is where I think the problem lies: women are educated in our culture to hate and despise men, not to value them in any meaningful way. As Rookh Kshatriya mentioned once, thug-chasing seems to be ‘a personal statement of some kind’. I think that’s largely true: in a culture where true masculinity isn’t valued, women will choose thugs and metrosexuals as a way of expressing their contempt for it.

  23. Hannah:
    Those are interesting points, where I would differ is that the Alpha Lion is still worth more than 100 Alpha wolves and could easily put them to flight. An example I thought of recently was that of Charles Manson, who recently was getting married (for the third time) but seemed to have postponed his plans because of the deluge of female fan-mail he’s getting—he still has plenty of options even in old age…sigh. (When I searched for that story Manson’s mailing address actually came up 3rd in the Google rankings!) So he’s clearly an ‘alpha wolf’ (or a Zeta, as I would term that type) but how many look up to and admire his polar opposite: Vincent Bugliosi? I’ll bet a lot of women under 30 know Manson but know nothing about Bugliosi.

    Bugliosi was the man who brought Manson to justice and would have rid the earth of him, if California hadn’t abolished the death penalty in the nick of time. Bugliosi has a doctor of jurisprudience degree, is a best-selling author and producer, is wealthy despite being born into a poor immigrant family. He’s the same age as Manson—not bad looking for a ‘senior’ but I doubt that he gets a fraction of the female attention that Manson does.

    “So it really comes down to whereabouts women are meeting men. Whatever group a female associates with that’s the dynamic she’s going to be affected by.”

    True—but let’s examine that dynamic. Most of the males I described are uneducated louts—yet they easily get college students and college-educated women. Most of them are chronically unemployed and frequent residents of jails, homeless shelters, and clinics—yet they easily get professional, working-class women who support them. Most of them are abusive and violent—yet they get church-going females.

    How does this happen? The only answer I can come up with is that such women must be actively seeking out such men, since the males women associate with on a daily basis aren’t the types they’re choosing. Such men are invisible to them, while they pursue the thugs with abandon.

  24. You have my permission:
    The only problem with your argument is that Christian women generally don’t behave any differently in this respect than non-Christian ones. I’m sure a lot of single Christian guys could easily testify to the fact that they’re completely invisible to the women they see at Church, while many of those same women are supporting/dating a worthless deadbeat husband or boyfriend.

    “that reality is too terrifying to accept even for a red pill man. If most women prefer evil men, and no Christian man wants to imitate evil what is he to do? Be alone? That is a sacrifice most cannot come to terms with.”

    Agreed—but with these caveats:

    1. First, Involuntary celibacy is not a natural condition. God did not design man to be alone. When he’s forced to be, I would argue that it actually works the opposite of how you suggest—his celibate condition distracts him from his Christian mission. Notice how many in the Manosphere who run INCEL blogs are atheists. That’s not a coincidence. Christianity (and all mainstream religions) teach that God is Love. It’s a short step from ceasing to believe in love to ceasing to believe in God.

    2. It is very difficult for men to come to terms with that kind of sacrifice, because for all intents and purposes, the sacrifice is totally pointless. If I have no children and don’t expect to have any, what’s my stake in the future? None whatsoever. Literally, a man in that condition has no incentive whatsoever either to improve himself or others around him. To go off to a desert monastery and spend the rest of your life preparing for the Afterlife is really the only sensible course: but even Catholic bishops have said that type of life is not suitable for everyone. It’s also no coincidence that on these same INCEL blogs I mentioned above, the topic of suicide comes up continually.

    3. It may be so that in the Last Days people become worse and not better, but we don’t know when these Last Days are coming and therefore we have a Christian duty to do as much in the cause of righteousness in the time we are given here as possible. But when that begins to look like a lost cause, your motivation to fight on really begins to wane. You either end up hoping the end will come tomorrow in some way—hence the secularists I mentioned in the last paragraph can’t get the idea of suicide out their minds; and many Christian men too wake up every morning somehow disappointed that they actually woke up alive again.

  25. Pingback: I have permission to write again about game and sin nature | Feminism is Empathological

  26. Eric, regarding number 3, I think its more about the idea that we can somehow turn the tide and make real, global (not meaning global in the geographical sense) type changes. We cannot. Its why I get frustrated when evangelists start talking as if we are on the cusp of world wide conversions, when there are big rallies in Rwanda or something. No, we have pockets of spiritual outpouring. WE are not going to fashion a Kingdom of God here in this time, or ever. That silly bumper sticker “think globally act locally” put out by enviro enthusiasts is half right…..Act Locally….good words with sound expectations possibly behind them

  27. @Elspeth

    ‘He’s not a believer in “game” as it were and thinks the “red pill” is what used to be known as common sense.’

    Well, yeah, he’s right, this used to be common sense before 1965 or so before western culture was taken over by feminism. And he doesn’t believe in game, and he doesn’t have to. He can just ‘be himself’ and get women to want him — because ‘himself’ means masculine and dominant. Basically, he’s a natural, and he has the attractive traits that beta men are trying to emulate and develop for themselves, as they work to overcome a lifetime of feminizing social conditioning which was designed to ‘fix’ them by turning them into women, instead of allowing them to become the men they were created to be.

    Your husband was able to resist this conditioning, and good for him. But, not all western men have been able to, unfortunately.

  28. He can just ‘be himself’ and get women to want him — because ‘himself’ means masculine and dominant

    True, but we are discussing married couples, so the “getting women to want him” part is earlier in the chronology. I get it about being single and attracting women.
    I can say with utmost confidence that game, as generally described may well work miraculously, I suspect it at least appears to. But I’d add, offering myself as anecdotal evidence, that it just is not the single elixir for attracting women. Being a beta shlub probably is a recipe for failure, but being a dominant alpha as generally described is simply not the only route to the (actual) lift.

  29. @ Retrenched:

    Your husband was able to resist this conditioning, and good for him. But, not all western men have been able to, unfortunately.

    He didn’t resist any conditioning, he was never exposed to it to any great degree until he was firmly settled on the side of being more dominant.

    He’s the first to say that most of what came “naturally” to him (it was really modeled for him more than anything) was ungodly and the end results are things he wishes he could undo.

    I can certainly see why YHMP has some real issues with the infusion of Game into Christianity. My husband would strongly agree.

  30. Just one more thing…

    The church would do well to teach its young people the realities of the modern SMP and dating, the differences between men and women, what each sex wants from the other vis a vis attraction, and so on. Because if they don’t, then young people are going to look for answers elsewhere, like game or Cosmo.

  31. Follow me here….Cosmo was the dog on The Jettsons, so, if women are looking for answers by having cats, why not Cosmo?
    (I just woke from a nap)

  32. Empath:
    I agree with your comments on point 3; and those ‘pie-in-the-sky’ types frustrate me too. My point though was that the types of men more likely to be ‘alpha leader’ types are always going to have bigger, more daring, and wider-ranging projects in mind—whether locally or globally—and an anti-masculine society is going to make the frustration and alienation those types of men feel even more intense.

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