Men apologize to your wives… for sex

In a Family Life article called “If You Were Sexually Involved Before Marriage“, Robyn McKelvy addresses the long term effects that can have on the sexual relationship within the marriage. She rightly gives sexual intimacy its due as a vital component of marriage:

A healthy sexual relationship is a vital component of a healthy marriage.  But I believe a negative attitude about sex wages war against Christian marriages.  It is a means of dividing couples in the most intimate way possible and is a quiet but deadly attack on Christian marriages. Any woman who has intimacy issues with her husband must know that it is an attack on her most precious earthly relationship.  And Satan attacks this private area because he knows it is such a delicate subject matter—we won’t openly talk about it.

As I read that and imagined all the guys I’ve known, as well as those I’ve come across online who have sexless Christian marriages, I though to myself, how nice that a woman is writing an article that will emphasize the importance of sex and put some accountability on the spouses (which of course would include the wife directly)  to see that the sexual aspect of marriage is not ignored.

I could not have been more wrong in my expectations. She starts down a different path:

A woman who was sexually active with her husband before marriage told me, “He was the leader in the relationship before we got married, and he knew sex was wrong. Yet he continued to have sex with me.”  Now that they were married, she could not overcome the switch—that sex was wrong before, but now it was right in the context of marriage—and she was surprised at how her husband made the change so quickly. She still lives with the sin of that premature, inappropriate relationship every time he touches her. (my emphasis)

Stop here for a second. I do not believe this as stated. Realize exactly what she claims. A woman was having sex because she placed herself under the leadership of her boyfriend, not husband. And she knew it was wrong….but he lead her. Now, she is married, and she cannot get her head around the fact that it is sanctified in marriage. This is nonsense.

Here is the reality. She wanted sex in those early days and now she doesn’t. Period. That’s it. This entire narrative has been created as an artificial reality so that she can justify both of her bad decisions. There is an indirect confirmation that I am on the right track in what the author says later:

I talk about sexual intimacy with a lot of women and they are still wondering, Did my husband marry me because we were sexually involved? [  ] My husband has continued on like this does not affect him.  But it surely does affect me.

Alternatively, did he ONLY marry me for sex? This idea that men marry for sex is unacceptable to most women. They seem unable to process the true meaning of that, which is that, if there was not going to be sex in the marriage, the man would seek a different bride. Sex is the only thing that is relegated to marriage. For a Christian man have his compelling sexual needs met and be sanctified, he must marry. Hence, yes, a man marries for sex. This expressly does not state that he marries a particular women ONLY for sex. There is also everything else about her. But prior to the marriage, knowing she would refuse sex in the marriage would kill the deal.

So the author decides on how to fix these problems born of premarital sex. Men, listen to what the women are saying!

[ ]this is what wives are saying.  And I’ve discovered that they are hanging on to this issue because there has been no repentance or resolution.  If you have not apologized for being a self-centered leader in the relationship prior to marriage, and as a result you were involved sexually, it is time to get it resolved.[ ]

Your wife needs to know that you understand that your physical involvement with her, prior to marriage was a breach of trust.  She needs to understand that you are sorry for putting her in that position and that, with God’s help, she can trust that you will be the spiritual leader God has called you to be in your life and hers.

Taken whole this is amazing.

Before marriage the women didn’t want sex because they were not married, but he made her. Now, during marriage she doesn’t want sex…..because he made her before marriage. Also, she was so submissive then that she was willing to have premarital sex to follow him, but she feels so guilty and angry now that she is unwilling to submit to him in this (nor likely in any other area)

The truth is, she was hot for him in the early days, now she is not. And she has never been under his leadership, then, now, and likely never will be. If she was so devoted to submitting to her husband before marriage then she would not be denying sex within the marriage years later. She would still be submitting in that.

But she has this narrative to wrap herself in to make things look better for her, looking from the outside. Layer upon layer of deception. Its like these ministries sit around conference tables and brainstorm how to explain away women’s behavior and make it seem like contrition or guilt, never sin with agency.

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54 thoughts on “Men apologize to your wives… for sex

  1. The power shifts.

    Before the marriage she is giving sex to ensure commitment. After marriage she is no longer incentivized to offer sex because she already has what SHE wants, further now in marriage she is the one in power so she can fit test him to death and make her demands at take her vengeance for having her virtue “stolen”.

    The “hamster” will pipe in and suggest that she only had sex because that was the price to get him to commit, but rather than acknowledge this fact (and be seen as a soft prostitute) she would prefer to blame the guy for coercing her. Taking advantage of her vulnerability. After marriage she can extract the confession for his crimes and parlay that into future control of the marriage.

    The way I see it is that the man started off by putting the woman in charge by letting her dangle pre-marital sex as a carrot (she will feel as if she is in control because she is luring him in). If he actually commits to marriage after pre-marital sex he has failed the test in her eyes (because they’re following her sanctified path to marriage). After securing his commitment with the signing bonus of a failed fit test she is now planted firmly in the drivers seat and is in control of the marital narrative. Sex at this point is a tool that has served its usefulness, and the man has been exiled to beta-chump status.

    He’s thinking that he has secured a lifetime of sanctified sex, she’s thinking that she’s won a perpetual chump who she’ll have begging for sex as her own personal slave until she gets bored with him.

    Moral of the story: If you commit the sin fornication don’t compound the error by turning it into pre-marital sex.

  2. I think your take on this is right, Empath. The woman McKelvey described wanted sex before they got married; and now she doesn’t. It all comes back to her attraction level, and the fact that she married a man she doesn’t find attractive.

    I continue to believe this is the single biggest problem in American marriages. Too many women are married to men they aren’t sexually attracted to; and it’s too easy for the women to get out of their marriages.

    Finally, McKelvey calls on the men to “repent”. Um, excuse me, but “repent” means to turn away from your sin and go the other way. The men involved who did have premarital sex with their wives DID repent — by marrying the women they were having sex with. They turned away from their sin by making it right; and they made it right by marrying their wives so their sexual conduct would not be fornication but rather is sanctified and blessed in marriage. If that’s not repentance I don’t know what is. “Repentance” does not mean you go to the wife and say “I’m sorry”.

  3. If a man is going to let a woman lead him around by his manhood before marriage why does he think anything will change afterwards? Deti, I think the repentance needs to come through a hard self-assessment on the part of the man. A husband that finds himself in the above situation does indeed need to repent, he needs to repent of putting a woman before God and committing the same sin as Adam. As it turns out, by doing this it starts looking like Athol’s MAP and he can actually start clawing back some of his dignity and some of his wife’s attraction. In short we need to repent of being whipped and not duly honoring God.

  4. A woman was having sex because she placed herself under the leadership of her boyfriend, not husband. And she knew it was wrong….but he lead her. Now, she is married, and she cannot get her head around the fact that it is sanctified in marriage. This is nonsense.

    It is nonsense, but I’ve read some variation of this countless times over the past few years. I find it strange then. It seems a common refrain among religious women who had sex with their husbands before marriage.

    I once saw a spot on one those morning infotainment shows where a woman and her husband were trying to work through this identical scenario. They had a secular sex counselor on to help her.

  5. This is why I love your writings & insights, my friend. You’re able to cut right through the BS, tell the truth of the matter straight up. Love it.

    [thanks]

  6. Either she liked the sex before marriage or she did not. To me it is not evident which is the case.

    If she did not like the sex before marriage, then she was acting like a soft prostitute as stated above. The sex was used to “trap” the man into marriage. Now that she has the commitment of marriage she no longer has to go along with the disgusting act of sex with her husband and can create all this crap to cover her tracks by blaming him.

    If she did like the sex before marriage, she is just as guilty of sin as the husband. She was not under his leadership yet. It was up to her to so no, just as it was up to him to say no. As stated above, he repented by marrying her and therefore made the sex non-sinful.

    I cannot understand the pure idiocy of women acting like they do not understand that one of man’s primary motivations to marry is for a lifetime sexual partner. Isn’t that so obvious? The acting like they do not understand this, in my opinion, is a hostile and abusive act toward the husband when used as a weapon as in this case.

    I am so glad to be single! No more headgames! Just my son, my workouts, my reading and my hope in Christ.

  7. Empath:
    I’ve come to doubt that women really have any genuine sexual interest in men at all. The mounting evidence all seems to suggest that most women are really sexually frigid—which is logical in a misandryist culture—and only engage in sex with men as a sort of ‘price they have to pay’ for the benefits of a relationship. I think that phenomena like the Slut Culture and Cougar Culture are the same things: a bunch of frigid women engaging in sex to prove to themselves that they still really have any sexual value.

  8. Vascularity777:
    “Acting like they do not understand this…”

    Emphasis strongly here on the word ‘acting’. The @@@@@@@ understand full well what they are doing; they are simply too narcissistic to care about their behavior’s impact on men or children.

  9. Eric I have toyed with the idea that woman have no sexual interest in men. I do not believe that. The way that have it is nothing like what that say, with all the microwave vs slow cooker bs, but indeed they have it, it may be less omnipresent than men’s, but it has potentials to go waaaaaay low.

  10. What do you do for workouts Vasc? I have switched around as I have gotten older. I think I’ve actually gotten stronger since my dumbbell days. Look at putting in a muscle-up bar in my greenhouse this winter so I can work on my abs that way. I’ve seen some wicked bar routines that I want to get into.

  11. That pic is 13 years ago. About a month ago I began lifting heavy again. I’m the type of person that takes some things to extremes. My working out is the most extreme thing of my life.

    For the past four years since I moved into the house I now have, I’ve been progressively doing more and more aerobics and lifting when my body permits. The past year I’ve been doing between four and seven hours per day of aerobics. That is divided between my Concept Two rower (http://www.concept2.com/) and my Iron Man recumbent stationary bike. If I had to choose only one piece of equipment to own, it would be that rower. Previous the these past four years, when I was working 45 hours per week at a normal job, I did 90 minutes of rowing every morning. During that five years of only rowing I slid out of shape. Previous to that five years I was bodybuilding, which consisted of working out two to three hours per day.
    Now, in addition to the two pieces of aerobic equipment, my weightlifting equipment is mostly Hoist (http://www.hoistfitness.com/Search). I own a Hoist dual action smith machine. It is a wonderful piece of equipment. I also like my Powerblock dumbbells. Most of my other equipment is Hoist. I have the cheapest pec deck / rear deltoid machine; Yukon Fitness. It is fine, but not as good as most health club pec decks.
    My legs and arms are genetically smaller than my torso, so I split my body accordingly. I have a six day rotation and work out every day. The first day is chest and biceps and forearms. Second day is back and triceps. Third day is legs and lower back. Fourth day is front and side of shoulders and biceps and forearms. Fifth day is back of shoulders and triceps. Sixth day is back to legs. Then of course the next day is chest and biceps and forearms. Etc etc….
    I precede each upper body workout with one hour of rowing. I end each upper body workout with one hour of rowing. On leg days I preceed the weights with one to two hours of bike riding and after the weights at least one hour of bike. Three days ago my workout took over 9 hours as I did a very long bike ride after the weights. Some days in the late afternoon on upper body days I will do a two hour bike ride, but not on days when I have my son with me.
    I remember when I was training at a health club a few years ago and lifting for three hours me and a couple of the personal trainers would chat about the “fallacy” of overtraining. I would argue that overtraining is just a pussy excuse to not train enough; and one can only not rest a muscle group inadequately, but not overtrain a muscle group. It was a fun debate.
    I’m now 49 years of age. When I was 20 I got a job at a health club and was a “pencil neck”. Anybody remember that term? I could not gain weight or gain strength, but I was persistent and finally began to make gains. Over the years there were only about 8 or 10 years that I did not work out. For a couple of years I swam 90 to 120 minutes non-stop. During that time I was in my best aerobic condition, but now I am in outstanding aerobic condition as well; just a few pounds of fat on my stomach.
    I love to eat! For supplements I began buying from http://www.nutritionexpress.com/ back in 1984. I continue to buy from them, but also buy from Costco now. From Costco I buy CytoSport protein powder, which is actually now on sale for $6 off – very good deal. From nutrition express over the years I purchased Fitness Labs stuff a lot as that brand was cheaper and I needed to budget my money better then.
    Do squats if you can. Even if you use light weight, DO SQUATS! Do them is very good form. Do all your movements in excellent form with lighter weight so you move in a full range of motion. This is body building, not power lifting. As my pic indicates, I prefer bodybuilding to powerlifting.
    I can talk about this for hours. All gym rats can.
    I wrote this quickly. I just checked the blog again before going up to bed and saw your question. I’m gonna skip spell check and not proof read as I want to go to bed. Tomorrow is legs and I’ll be home all day due to having to wait for a delivery to arrive and then pick up my son at 6pm. So I’ll be on the bike early, do legs, then ride the bike for a long time I hope. I have my old computer on a desk next to my bike, so I do my blog reading and brilliant comments when I’m on the bike, or 99% of it.
    Empath, sorry about this wall of writing. Delete it if it is too long and I can just respond tomorrow in a shorter form. My working out has been my secondary salvation for many years and for a few reasons. Of course Jesus is my real salvation. Good night….

  12. I’ve come to doubt that women really have any genuine sexual interest in men at all.

    This may be true of a lot of wives with their own husbands (which is extremely disturbing), but is in no way a general truism.

  13. I echo what Elspeth said. Not all women/wives are like that, but I certainly understand the hesitation of a man wanting to marry again after an experience like what we’ve been talking about. It seems to me that, in these days in particular, you never really know what you’re getting, on several different levels. Very sad.

  14. I really think that we have to be careful with what it is women like. They seem to like Alpha traits, in the same way we like physical traits for example. Is the attraction what men would call sexual? Probably not. Has God given them what it takes to “get the job done”? Yes. I think men can be turned off by what attracts a woman if they boil it down to it’s core elements and that’s where you get the extreme cynicism that you see in the PUA’s. At it’s core, even in the bounds of marriage it can seem objectifying. (IMO)

  15. They seem to like Alpha traits, in the same way we like physical traits for example.

    I go along with this terminology (“alpha”) because it is the commonly accepted term around the manosphere for a man who knows what he does and doesn’t want in life and relationships and refuses to be jerked around by his woman. A man who is resolute and all that great stuff that I was blessed to marry. I don’t like the word, but for communication purposes, I use it.

    Yes. I think men can be turned off by what attracts a woman if they boil it down to it’s core elements and that’s where you get the extreme cynicism that you see in the PUA’s. At it’s core, even in the bounds of marriage it can seem objectifying. (IMO)

    Um,no. I don’t agree with the idea that a woman who is driven to be better under such a man is somehow objectifying him. He isn’t being objectified any more than a woman is being objectified because a man is drawn to the way she looks and expects her to remain reasonably fit.

    Objectification only comes into play when the man has to play a role (be someone other than who he truly is) in order for his wife to show respect and/or desire.

    Likewise, a woman whose husband insists on breast and butt implants, botox injections, and other unnatural and unreasonable things to try and make his wife look 30 when she is 45 is objectifying her. But it’s not objectification for a man to expect his wife to work out and lay off the cupcakes.

    We should all be willing to put a bit of effort in. Love should be reciprocal, and this is where many women drop the ball.

  16. @ I Art Laughing:

    I am sorta MGTOW and am alone a bit too much. As a result I can be a bit long winded when I have something of interest to me.

    Sorry Empath. I knew it was over the top in length but posted it anyway.

    I discovered Veritas Lounge this morning. That is another excellent blog. I’m sure you all know about it already.

  17. Elspeth,

    I think that is what PUA’s are doing, crassly manipulating what they know to be attractive to women in order to game their base nature. My base nature is attracted to pretty, nubile, chaste young ladies, many women have a base nature that is attracted to financially secure, socially dominant, charismatic men. Whatever our base nature wants is selfish when left to its own devices, what it wants can and often does clash with what God commands. If we get the idea that our spouse is not really, truly attracted to us (or we are not attracted to them) we’re going to have a tough time no matter how sincere our commitment to God’s word we are. I work on being attracted to my wife and being attractive to her because I know this. Not that it is all important but because I do not like the alternative. (And yes I am aware of elements of “game” in this).

    If we strip out God and reduce this to a problem in the flesh, all we have left is selfishness and objectification. That is a snare the enemy has laid beside all of our feet. (Observe the gold-digger and the PUA).

  18. Elspeth & Just Me:
    I don’t think this phenomenon is strictly limited to wives not wanting sex with their husbands; I think it’s true of women whether married or single. I think most women really see sex as something like a bill that they ‘just have to pay’ if they want a relationship—rather like a man’s paying the electric bill if he wants the benefit of electricity.

  19. Empath:
    Females are much more socially influenced in than males, in every respect. When a society is as militantly anti-masculine as ours, it follows that women lose any valuation for men. Under the circumstances, they can’t possibly have any sexual attraction to men.

    To draw a parallel: if a normal man were surrounded constantly by fat, tattooed, drugged out skanks, wouldn’t he lose sexual interest in women to a large degree? It’s a well-known phenomenon that heterosexual men—when deprived of access to females—can turn (at least temporarily) to homosexuality. And we see the same phenomenon at work in our own culture: as females become less desirable, there are increases in males experimenting with homo and bi sexual behaviors.

    This is only true of a minority of men; but since women are largely products of social conditioning, the impact of anti-male hatred would be far more serious and widespread on female psychology.

  20. @Elspeth

    I think what I am trying to get at is that the shock of realization that women are not attracted the same way can really be, well shocking. The very alien nature of attraction between men and women can be dehumanizing (my husband/wife is attracted to me because of THAT?? Gross, why?) Especially coming out of the blue pill haze of fantasies it can be a jolt, suddenly everything gets inverted and it felt like as a man that I got completely dumped on my head. Instead of white knightery I had to start quietly asserting responsibility and leadership rather than deferring. Instead of being verbose as I tend to be, I needed to start keeping counsel with God and other men. Talking less actually seems to have helped communication in the marriage. I cannot overemphasize the paradigm shift OR the resulting transformation. You’re marriage sounds like it has avoided much of this confusion.

  21. I think that what Eric is saying is actually tying in with what I am. This alien response to heterosexual, dimorphic attraction is giving way to a more homogenized and sickly basis for attraction. In short both sexes are being perverted Women being more attracted to feminine traits of attraction in a partner and men being more attracted to masculine traits of attraction in a partner, that takes care of that alien barrier, in a completely carnal manner.

  22. And we see the same phenomenon at work in our own culture: as females become less desirable, there are increases in males experimenting with homo and bi sexual behaviors.

    Seems this is old news. There was a book in the 70’s called “How American females are driving American Males to Homosexuality”. I was in the college bookstore where I attended. I have looked long and hard lately for that book and cannot find mention of it online, but it would be a gem to read in the manosphere context. If anyone talkes the initiative and finds it I will owe you a beer.

  23. @ IAL:

    I understand what you’re getting at. Having spent my formative years with a father and 3 older brothers I never really got into the habit of female communication until my father remarried when I was 10 and my stepmother came with her daughter into the family. Oddly enough, my stepmother isn’t very chatty either.

    Talking less actually seems to have helped communication in the marriage. I cannot overemphasize the paradigm shift OR the resulting transformation. You’re marriage sounds like it has avoided much of this confusion.

    Yes, we have avoided it. Marrying a guy who doesn’t do a lot of talking felt completely natural to me. Not that my husband doesn’t talk to me. He does. But when it comes to talking about the things that women consider “vitally important” there is a specific time and atmosphere for that and I don’t get to dictate the terms under which we “really talk”.

    I’m fine with that though.

    @Eric:

    I think most women really see sex as something like a bill that they ‘just have to pay’ if they want a relationship—rather like a man’s paying the electric bill if he wants the benefit of electricity.

    I don’t believe that. There are fewer masculine men about, but the world is not void of them. There are too many people having too much sex for me to accept that women are doing something they loathe for the purpose of securing a relationship even when it’s clear it won’t be maintained for life (like hookups ONS, etc).

    Women like sex just fine.

  24. In short both sexes are being perverted Women being more attracted to feminine traits of attraction in a partner and men being more attracted to masculine traits of attraction in a partner, that takes care of that alien barrier, in a completely carnal manner.

    I just saw this comment. I don’t know. Yes and no?

    Women often seem to be attracted to more feminine traits on the surface (that Twilight actor, Justin Beiber, etc.) I remember wondering what the heck was going on when women were swooning over a girly looking Leonardo DiCaprio in the wake of Titanic. He was just so…pretty. Too feminine for my tastes.

    But all of that is just on the surface, which is why you read so much around the sphere about women divorcing men who are sensitive, emotional, and nice in greater numbers. Why the ‘bad boys’ seem to do better with women than the nice guys. Women aren’t really attracted to more feminine characteristics. We’re just herd creatures, unless we’ve been bred and raised to crave strength, and it usually takes a strong father to do that. How may women have those these days? Not many.

    Same with men. They like masculine (read: sexually aggressive women) when they’re single. But it’s not normally what a man wants when he gets serious. Clearly, I have no in depth knowledge of this, but I have watched the men in my extended family and my husband’s family as well as his friends and the difference between the sorts of women they date and the types of women they marry are pretty stark.

    Of course, there are those guys who have religious convictions and then marry whomever they happen to be sleeping with out of guilt and end up miserable, but as a rule? Not so.

  25. Remember there was a study talked about in the sphere recently where they showed images of nude men and women doing mundane things, then images of nude men and women doing motions considered erotic, like yoga etc. Women viewed these and uniformly were more aroused by watching other females. Men….duh, but women wwere stimulated most by women doing erotic things, next down the list nude women doing mundane things, then finally men doing erotic things, etc.

  26. That’s a different issue Empath, than what women find attractive in a man, no? Or are you expanding that to use it as an explanation for why it seems women are attracted to feminine traits in men?

    If that is so, given the plethora of more sensitive, in touch with their feelings men, shouldn’t their wives be more engaged sexually rather than less?

  27. Elspeth:
    “Women seem attracted to effeminate men” like Robert Pattison and Justin Bieber. I think that backs up the recent study which illustrates fairly clearly that modern women are latently homosexual. This is would be logically predictable in a culture where masculinity is hated and undervalued.

    “[men] like masculine women when they’re single.”

    Not true. There are so few genuinely feminine women available, that single men often choose the LEAST masculine from what’s available. For a long term commitment though, most men prefer femininity.

    “Women like sex just fine.”

    Also not true. The reason that there is so much sluttiness (and never pursuing real men) among women is because they sense their hatred of men and fear their own frigidity; which translates into a loss of sexual power for them. The Slut and Cougar cultures aren’t for female satisfaction; they are escapism and ego validation.

    “There are fewer masculine men about”

    Also not true. Most masculine men, though, are ‘keeping their heads low’ because being masculine makes you a target in today’s world. Or else, they are pursuing foreign women and are absent from the dating scene. What you’re seeing in the dating market are mostly the dregs—not the top quality males.

  28. @ Elspeth

    One of my biggest red-pill shocks was grasping the fact that everything I had been told about women by guys like Gary Smalley was basically garbage. Coming to the full realization that my wife is neither wired like me nor is she some saintly blank slate born into sinless perfection that I could inscribe what I like onto and enjoy. She has her very own personality, and her own set of attractions (imagine that!). I don’t think your marriage has had to deal with this level of confusion and dysfunction, which is a blessing to you.

    I’m in agreement with a guy over on CF that first introduced me to the notion that pornography is actually homosexual in nature. Looking at women’s bodies that are a veneer for men’s souls.

    Well, enough about that.

  29. I think Elspeth has never been in a blue-pill fog. So I think that is natural. Unwinding some of my thoughts can be pretty difficult too so I don’t blame anybody that walks away from something I write scratching their heads and saying “huh?”

  30. Elspeth you may have misunderstood

    It wouldn’t be the first time, LOL. Apologies for sending your thread off the rails.

  31. I read a ton of stuff today from various Christian sources on sex in marriage. It was so disparate that I couldn’t construct a post. It covered this idea of her not wanting sex now because of thengs from back then, and myriad others. Maybe I will do a part 2.
    OT but……Also, there was a ministry, I didnt save link, for saving marriages. They had pages and pages of testimonials. On page one there were 25. 21 of the 25 began with “finally, my husband has come home”. 85% or so were husbands running off with other women, the other 4 were that women left. We know this is not representative of reality. So, I wonder of its something about the ministry and who they attract, or do they sort these things and put the ones up front that would appeal to women to gin up more business.
    Because women buy the relational books, we are told. yet when a woman files divorce, she is dogged, wants no seminar or books are help other than validation.
    So, it makes sense these people sell to the one group of women who would by buyers of relational books and had their husbands walk out. Maybe that’s a pattern I need to look for.

  32. From the OP:
    “He was the leader in the relationship before we got married, and he knew sex was wrong. Yet he continued to have sex with me.”
    “She still lives with the sin of that premature, inappropriate relationship every time he touches her”

    Seems to me she’s trying to paint her husband as the Snake!
    (HE knew sex was wrong yet he convinced me it was good)…. Woah there lady – did you not recognise it as sin yourself?! If not, how on earth not?! And even if you didn’t have any awareness of the sin you were committing, the fact that he did and ‘continued to have sex’ with you doesn’t need to become your issue. That’s between your husband and God!

    To me this woman is saying that she still lives with the sin because she hasn’t actually repented. Blaming someone else (Snake, husband….) isn’t repentance. So this is perhaps not even really about their sex life at all, but the fact that she feels guilty, and she hates feeling guilty, so she seeks to transfer the blame. Enter Satan.
    Oh and the fact that she threw the ‘leader in the relationship’ thing in there at all is just a joke. She’s wasn’t under anything she didn’t choose for herself. She’s just using every angle she can get away with. I feel sorry for her husband.
    (I actually DO have empathy btw! It’s just a little more cognitive than emotional :))

    @Eric:
    “I’ve come to doubt that women really have any genuine sexual interest in men at all.”

    God created woman as a good thing for man…. it would be next to impossible to convince me that women have no real sexual interest in men! That’s not to say that the whole arena hasn’t been horribly twisted into a cesspool of nastiness mind you. But at it’s core – females are sexual too.

    @Empath:
    “women were stimulated most by women doing erotic things, next down the list nude women doing mundane things, then finally men doing erotic things, etc.”

    I have a theory on this one…. it’s that female sexuality is passive, and male sexuality is aggressive.
    In order to be stimulated by an image, one has to be able to imagine being the aggressor to activate arousal. That’s a clumsy sentence…. but what I’m meaning is that a female figure doesn’t have to be doing much of anything to be arousing because her sexual form is passive. Her being nude is erotic in itself because one still imagines things being DONE to her. A nude man by comparison needs to be in an overtly sexual position to induce a similar effect, and even then the imagination isn’t on him but on what he’s DOING. That’s why it doesn’t take much female nudity to incite lust. Just a thought 🙂

    @Elspeth:
    “Women often seem to be attracted to more feminine traits on the surface.”

    Good emphasis on ‘surface’. Like you said, the herd has been sold the lie and so that seems the safe way to go. But it’s not what they’re biologically wired to desire so it’s bound for trouble. The ugly lie of feminism is cutting down both sides…. attacking femininity AND masculinity and it’s a lose-lose situation all round. The only marriages thriving seem to be the ones who have avoided or rejected the mob brainwashing. You and your husband are truly blessed to be such a couple!

  33. Hannah:
    Well, we know that women boast of their ability to fake orgasms; and given that the kinds of men they routinely choose for partners or classify as ‘hot’ are hardly males who exude masculine sexuality; and given the way they can so easily divorce/dump men with whom they’ve supposedly been ‘enjoying’ sex for years—-it’s hard to conclude from that that women feel much of any sexual impulse towards men. However, studies do show that they are sexually stimulated by other women and even animals mating—but rarely men.

  34. @Eric:
    “However, studies do show that they are sexually stimulated by other women and even animals mating—but rarely men.”
    What kind of crazy studies are you reading?! Well I’m only half joking Eric, because despite all the social propaganda that’s been conditioning the laymen for years – women are still hard-wired by God to be attracted to men. It’s the complimentary nature of the sexes and it lives on despite all efforts by the enemy to kill it.
    Do you really believe that God created man and woman for marriage but designed women to HATE men?? Or do you think society is now so corrupt that this seems to be the general case?

  35. Hannah:
    I think that our society is now so corrupt that this is the general case. Women are also designed to be mothers; but most are eschewing motherhood until late in life, or foregoing children altogether; or running to abortion-mills and day-cares (both of which are multi-billion dollar industries) instead. Motherhood, sexual attraction to men, emotional bonding—all of these things may be latent in modern females, but have atrophied under their education.

    It’s noteworthy that girls and very young women don’t typically exhibit these negative traits. The media, school, and church change all those tendencies though, in a negative direction.

  36. “Motherhood, sexual attraction to men, emotional bonding—all of these things may be latent in modern females, but have atrophied under their education.”

    Makes me very glad I went no further than highschool 🙂

  37. Hannah:
    To be totally honest, outside of the women who comment on Manosphere blogs, I never actually encounter women who think or behave much differently than what I’ve described here. To me the idea of a woman who likes sex with men; actually falls in love with a genuinely strong male, wants children, thinks submission and femininity are good things: these are all concepts that I can’t even get my mind around. If I were to go back to the dating market, I wouldn’t expect to encounter ANY of these attitudes.

    I’m not saying that NAWALT women don’t really exist; I do want to point out that the women who comment on these blogs don’t represent the overwhelming number of women by any stretch of the imagination.

  38. My situation is a little different. My husband and I have been married 21 years. We both planned to wait till, our wedding night for sex. That didn’t work, though we waited till engagement. All was fine for 16 years. Then he lost interest.. He is a pastor and has brought up that he feels guilty all these years later. I have never blamed him. I was responsible for my own actions.

    I’d be interested to hear your take on this. Thanks:)

  39. I would need to know more information before replying. What action did you take that had him losing interest? by vague or general if you must, or just don’t respond if that is too much.
    I can obviously speak to how and why a man may lose interest as I am one. One reason is a major change in the appearance of the wife. If it is weight gain a man will not lose interest in sex for some time, it can reach a point though where he may lose interest, and thats something that needs to be worked out. Another reason is continual rejection, even if there is sex with some regularity, if he faces three rejections for every one yes, and then sometimes the yes is “well go ahead and use me”, he will lose interest, and this case is harder to fix than the weight gain one.
    Just random thoughts

  40. Could be low testosterone on his part. I’m thinking as a pastor, he probably doesn’t have a lifestyle which promotes high tess levels. Doc’s don’t like to treat it either. If he gets tested and is in the low but normal range, drive the issue home he wants to be in the high end of normal.

    Which is not to say Emp is giving bad advice

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  42. I can’t think of anything I have done. I never refused him if he was in the mood. It wasn’t a chore for me. I was into it. As far as weight, yes, I’m about 20 pounds heavier than when we married, but I gained that early on. He was still interested in me at my current weight for another 10 years.
    I haven’t let myself go. I fix my hair, keep up with my mani/pedis, wear make up, shave, get spray tans etc. just like I always have.
    I treat him well. I cook, clean the house without asking him to help. I do his laundry and iron his clothes. I don’t complain about his long hours at work. He has even thanked me for being a good wife and not being a nag. I just don’t get it.

  43. Michelle, yes you have a puzzle on your hands. 20 pounds is not the kind of weight gain I was referring to, men will soldier on with that regardless if they would kind of prefer the weight not be there…..that’s not going to explain this.

    The only other suggestion would be have his T levels checked.

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