The man, the Tylenol, and the Toyota

Yashar has a new piece up called Is It Dangerous to Date Men. A small sample from his closing remarks ….to set the mood.

The data is clear. Are we just going to sweep violence against women under the rug? We’re
running out of room.

Women are running out of time in this country.

This sounds dire. And he knows it will attract the attention of us pedestrians:

I have just given the ultimate fuel to the men’s rights groups that love to troll my posts and attack me. (I look forward to receiving the usual emails accusing me of being a self-hating man, blah, blah, blah.)

I don’t know about being a self-hating man. I do know why he writes what he does. He is still chasing the lift. Adolescent boys will say anything to adolescent girls to get the lift. They will try to convince the girls that they are “not like other guys”….so that she will raise up (the lift) and allow her trousers to be removed, and he can get what he has convinced her is was not after. Its a facade anyway because they both wanted the same thing from the start. She just needed some hamster food and he knew the preferred flavor.

The lift takes on other forms as the man ages, yet remains stuck in that phase of adolescent wonderment for women, keeping them on pedestals. The lift may still involve trousers, but less so. The lift he now seeks is emotional, like inclusion in the right groups, the affirmation of others, and most especially the openly expressed agreement by women that he REALLY is not like other guys….that he is harmless and safe… which is the utmost compliment. The approval he receives fro women via comments and email I will call the cyber lift, and it feels very good. In the company of men and women stuck in this group think, the experience is a second cousin to the empathogasm….”yes, I feel the same about this issue and have you considered that……?” Make no mistake, beneath all the machinations, when the dust settles, it is still sex drive motivated and primal. Insidious is as insidious does. No, he is not a self-hating man, he is a man like the rest but a damned sneaky one.

Rational discourse is blocked. The experiential is de rigueur. Yashar makes both qualitative and quantitative assertions. The qualitative first…in typical liberal/feminist fashion he throws out unqualified assertions like red meat….er, arugula to the salivating masses.

It’s about calling attention to the fact that our culture is shamefully behind in addressing violence against women. [ ]

We have marginalized the issue of domestic violence and sexual assault.

How so? He tells us…

12 percent of women in the United States have suffered rape or attempted rape by someone they were dating

One in four women will face domestic violence in her lifetime.

One-fifth to one-fourth of college-age women have survived rape or attempted rape. One out of four college-age men has admitted to sexual coercion in some form.

Every year, 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes take place.

  I left the link active in his last assertion because at the very least it mitigates his hyperbole and his inferences (which come by way of the corpus of his work). Look at what the linked paper has to say

Of the estimated 4.8 million intimate partner rapes and physical assaults perpetrated against women annually, approximately 2 million will result in an injury to the victim, and 552,192 will result in some type of medical treatment to the victim. Of the estimated 2.9 million intimate partner physical assaults perpetrated against men annually, 581,391 will result in an injury to the victim, and 124,999 will result in some type of medical treatment to the victim.

and it goes on to add

Approximately one-fifth of all rapes, one-quarter of all physical assaults, and one-half of all stalkings perpetrated against female respondents by intimates were reported to the police. Even fewer rapes, physical assaults, and stalkings perpetrated against male respondents by intimates were reported [emphasis mine]

How can Yashar make assertions like this one

We are living
in a country and a world that continually reminds women that their safety is an inconvenience or
at a minimum treats it as a non-issue.

and then credibly claim to not be a guy interested in gender conflict? Easy. The lift. Sex drive motivates men in all sorts of ways. My saying that IS acknowledgement that men have such compelling sex drives that we must be vigilant. Being vigilant is more than simply not giving over to base urges that manifest in rape and abuse, but also not being to clever by half in attempts to manipulate people.

He gets more quantitative, attempting to juxtapose some unrelated statistics against those he has shared regarding violence against women to prove how apathetic we are about DV.

-Most stores have been short of Tylenol since 2009 because millions of bottles were pulled(and remain) off store shelves for reasons of quality control.

-In 2009 and 2010, Toyota recalled over five million of its vehicles after they were discovered to have faulty accelerator issues that led to the deaths of 37 people

His offers us his statistical pedigree…

I’m reminded, too, of a quotation that my father (a professor of statistics) has on his office wall, one from the legendary statistician W. Edwards Deming: “In God I trust; all others must bring data.”

And then he makes his point.

Could you imagine if they [men] were recalled? Pulled off the street? “Sorry sir, you’ll have to come
with me; we’ve had reports that men have been raping, beating, and killing women, and we can’t
take the risk that you will, too.” Yes, it’s a ridiculous idea. But men are way more dangerous than
Tylenol.

Yes I can imagine it. Read Stephen Baskerville’s Taken Into Custody for a lil’ bit of perspective. Or, check airline policy that forbids men from flying next to unaccompanied minors. Regular men, MOST men, are on edge about all these things because they do not know what allegation the Yashar-esque women of the world will concoct next. Its part of the MGTOW response, and in light of things, it is reasonable.

On the numbers…

We know the excellent work of RADAR in debunking DV statistics. They and others like them are routinely dismissed as being male advocacy groups. Check the links in Yashars article and see that there was 1.6 billion dollars of VAWA funding at stake when these studies were conducted. No one would have any self interest in that because, as Yashar points out

$1.6 billion is a pittance for something that will impact one-fourth of women in their lifetime.

Studies that show men are abused evoke emotions too. Just not the one’s that Yashar wants to experience. But, unlike anecdotes Yashar refers to when he says,

Every woman I know has a story of a friend being raped or assaulted [indeed every woman he knows]

the emotions evoked regarding men who are abused are derision, defensiveness (“yea but….”), and even humor. But thankfully more and more people and media are willing to report the symmetry of the issue:

More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals

-Men assaulted by their partners are often ignored by police, see their attacker go free and have far fewer refuges to flee to than women,

-The charity’s analysis of statistics on domestic violence shows the number of men attacked by wives or girlfriends is much higher than thought.

-Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

Yashar sees himself as a courageous combatant, a knight for women, and boldly calling out men for our tendencies to base urges. He and his feminist ilk are missing the real spear tip, the real action point in the whole drama. More and more issues are testing the claim feminists make that they seek balance and fairness for everyone. DV is one. They are flying in the face of their own stated convictions that feminism is about equality for everyone. Isn’t it true that “if just one can be saved” is a hallmark of liberal advocacy? Or does that statement have a caveat? Its only for one child, one woman, one minority, one acceptable ethnic enclave in a far off place, one member of a certain sexual orientation. Not. For. Men.

If he wants to proliferate an image of being on the edge of societal issues he is failing. He gets a handful of sycophants telling him he is the only guy saying the truth. Like so many younger liberals he yearns for the days he can only experience through uploaded photos and scanned new articles. The days of real rebellion, street marches and sit ins. There was risk in holding to convictions that were new. The advocates like him are sorted in time in roughly 4-5 years subsets. Coincidentally the time it takes to pass through a university in America. I see them everywhere, in all the brackets, they want to be the biggest Dylan fan or have the right old books on ideology, they want to dress like radicals and write like radicals and they want to be noticed for their courage and intelligence. Yashar is 30-40   years late, and he is missing the first wave of really new activism to come along in a long time. By choice….because…..no lift.

Does it all sound familiar? Its the same as the church, for 40 years, ranting at the men in the pews when the vast majority of those men are under the subjugation of their wives, trying to please them through pandering, not running rough shod over the wives. The more it fails the harder they try. The preachers are chasing the lift, at the expense of the male congregants. I cannot repeat enough, the lift, in all its forms, is the motive.

One woman commented on Yashar’s post :

Yashar,
As always, your posts rock my world!

He got the lift.

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23 thoughts on “The man, the Tylenol, and the Toyota

  1. In courtly love in Medieval times the knight courted a woman who was not available to him. She was, ideally married, preferably to a man of higher social rank. this is depicted in a kind of modern parody fashion in “A Knight’s Tale” by the way. Essentially he loves the woman, but she doesn’t believe him, so she sets him to do various tasks just to be able to have her tolerate his presence at first. “If you love me you’ll do XYZ” kind of thing. Then he does it, but that really only gets her to open the door a little. “Oh, if you REALLY love me…” you get the idea. According to the Royal Court of France’s chroniclers in the Middle Ages, these performances would gradually encourage their relationship from emotional adultery into actual physical adultery. It’s interesting to notice the parallel between this and the ‘bases’ guys used to try to get to with a girl in the mid twentieth century; they are pretty much the same.

    This is what the term White Knight directly relates to, for anyone unfamiliar with the term. Essentially he is a man enslaved to the notion that his raison d’etre comes from women, ideally a particular woman but the code of chivalry after all places women first.

    The most important part of this is that the object of the quest is not the knight’s own. The contrast in the Arthurian stories of the knights questing after the Grail is that they were seeking the Grail–not women’s approval. In fact in those stories women are presented as a distraction and a temptation while these knights pursue their holy quest. The general idea is that to achieve the Grail is to restore the land to health and goodness.

    The middle ground in these stories is that of “Sir Gawaine and the Green Knight” where Gawaine (my favourite of the Knights of the Round Table by the way–the all too human guy Gawaine) struggles with his faith and integrity in a very peculiar setting as he tries to fulfill an honourable oath. He is neither a perfect saint nor is he a ‘white knight’–throughout his quests he strives to be a genuinely good man and to grow stronger in his faith, honour and courage.

    This is the hardest of the three paths I’ve just illustrated, it requires the humility to learn from both the world around you and your own mistakes. That is a characteristic of all the good men and women in history, and certainly in the Bible.It is hardest to learn to avoid what SEEMS good and seek the real good.

    That’s what I see in your friend, reading more than just the one article there–his thoughts are expressed along avenues that genuinely do seem good! It honestly takes the exposure of feminism in the protests at Toronto or their attacks on Warren Farrel online or even the Good Men Project when they are, after all, talking about rape PREVENTION, to see how their intentions only SEEM good. It takes really seeing how unjust, hypocritical and destructive this ideology is to realize that they are only using platitudes, buzzwords and frankly marketing skills to depict things that tug at people’s hearts and have them focused on disturbing stories rather than on how awful their solutions actually are. OF course rape is horrible; of course abuse is horrible, of course sexism is horrible. The acknowledgement of their views on it though are what opens the door for the white knight.

    Imagine this: “Sir knight, thou sayest thou doth love me? Then prove it by fighting in the next tourney with thine armour bared on thy left side!”

    “But milady, should I do so, I will fain expose my heart and lung to the thrust of mine opponent!”

    Uplifted chin, pursed lips. “If thou truly lovest me, thou wouldst not e’en speak in such a manner, caring more for thine own body than for my heart…”

    Knight, kneeling, “Nay, let me be ashamed of my hesitation–thou shalt see it at the next tourney or ne’er see me more!”

    You get the idea. In this case of course the armour is the Armour of God, our minds, what protects us from unrighteousness. It sounds good–it’s about love, right?

    And so Sir Lancelot chooses to gallop off to his own destruction, that of the Kingdom, for the sake of a lady’s favour.

  2. I’m never going to understand how women want to be treated certain way and think they can get away with treating men like we’re their slave.

  3. “Every woman I know has a story of a friend being raped or assaulted.”

    Probably so. Given the statistics he quoted, I would say it has less to do with inherent flaws in men and more to do with the fact that women can’t seem to keep themselves away from violent thugs.

    It might be a better approach for people like Yasher to point this out—maybe encourage women to see some actual value in decent, responsible men instead of dropping their panties on reflex for every psychotic male they encounter. When you look at the sheer number of men with violent or unstable histories who seem to have harems of wives and girlfriends (and numerous children by them); it’s difficult to hold the men 100% responsible for all this alleged violence.

  4. Sojournerscribe:
    The modern white knights are out fighting the dragons while the damsel stays in the tower and screws the court jester in the knight’s bed. Maybe it’s time we let the damsels depend on the jesters?

  5. Well if you follow it in fact it resembles modern life. The White Knight is only rarely actually married to the ladies he champions and in fact will sometimes champion one lady (or cause of ladies) after another. The knight to whom the lady is married–in this case not so much even a particular guy as society in general, not knowing how to deal with the lady’s antics–doesn’t know what to do. Similarly, as a society people don’t know what to do. Feminism is either seen as irrelevant and harmless or else as beneficial. It was important in Courtly Love that the husband should not have enough evidence to make an open accusation.

    So if you follow the analogy, the loyal husband–not the court jester–is the one the ladies really go to bed with. But who is that? If we follow the analogy, that’s SOCIETY–because let’s face it society has replaced loyal husbands. Where once expectation of provision and protection came from the loyal husband, now it is provided by law.

    The White Knights will have to, as real knights did, simply become irrelevant or swallow the red pill and realize how their quests are fruitless. And the lady exposed for being false and untrue. No more fancy titles for her, no more privileged life, no more chivalry; just being seen as an ordinary person subject to the same laws and rules as anyone else.

  6. That guy’s whole post was a bunch of feminist propaganda. But this part of your post made me laugh:

    They will try to convince the girls that they are “not like other guys”….so that she will raise up (the lift) and allow her trousers to be removed, and he can get what he has convinced her is was not after. Its a facade anyway because they both wanted the same thing from the start. She just needed some hamster food and he knew the preferred flavor.

    That was pretty good.

  7. White Feminist Woman at Georgetown University working in the admissions department openly admitted that she REJECTED white men’s applications simply because they were WHITE MEN.

    Brief: A female advisor in the admissions department at Georgetown University has been caught openly admitting that she committed the CRIME of discrimination based on people’s race and gender in the application process.

    This has the potential to create a large scale lawsuit against Georgetown University, and with the momentum building at the rate it is building, seems very likely that will be the outcome.

    Below are the main links to all of the information regarding this news story and case.

    http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums2/tabid/369/forumid/232/threadid/6149/scope/posts/Default.aspx

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/georgetown-university-and-men/georgetown-university-in-a-cover-up/

  8. Empath & Sojourner:

    The US Center for Disease Control reported yesterday that nearly 1/4 of American women over the age of 12 are currently taking prescription psychiatric dope; and that 1/6 over that age have been diagnosed with ADHD; or bipolar; or clinical depression.

    Yeah—-so much for female horror at encountering violent and psychopathic men. It looks like a typical male has a better than even chance of being the one preyed upon by a nutcase on a date. All the more reason to avoid American women like the plague!

  9. Pingback: The White Conservative Male | Free Northerner

  10. Empath, I hope you told that tool his feminism would never get him laid.

    Usually they’re too stupid and deluded to figure it out for themselves.

    The ‘lift’ = self-pedestalization = epic fail.

  11. I have a few thoughts about the above replies.

    @Eric: the problem is not American women per se. Generally Americans and people in other prosperous countries feel entitled, and American women have taken that and run with it. But as Christians we need to realize that the world is full of sin and iniquity. This is nothing new. We are trying having swallowed the red pill to see that women are not inherently virtuous requiring only a ‘good man’ as churchianity has falsely taught us and even as the pickup community teaches–essentially that a woman is simply a vessel into which can be poured whatever will fill it properly. With either notion, that women are more spiritual than men, or that women need to simply be controlled in the right way, you have the woman’s moral responsibility entirely removed. As Christians we need to have the attitude that OF COURSE the world is full of sin and iniquity. We need to act to stop the deception. When for example a young man is considering marriage, we need to teach as Christ and the Apostles taught on marriage, not as churchianity does. Marriage is not something to be pursued–righteousness is. Only if marriage fits in with that should it be sought after at all.

  12. @ Martian Bachelor: I think you are being unfair. Most people in the manosphere were White Knights, Maginas or simple good Blue Pill swallowers at one time or another. It’s not stupidity: it is that the popular understanding is wide spread and goes deep so that we do not perceive the truth, and so that the teachings lead you to believe that anything going against the grain has to be false and awful.

    While it is frustrating to deal with them, because they are constant apologists for something that is exasperatingly untrue, you must remember that the school system, most churches, government, entertainment all support Feminism, supposedly progressive ideals. It appears to be extremely profitable personally, socially, even professionally, to approach life this way. Few men enter the red pill zone voluntarily. Most have it thrust upon them.

  13. This is true, most men are force fed red pills, they even regurgitate them trying to not accept it until finally enough gets into the blood they cannot anymore ignore it

  14. Sojourner:
    I wholeheartedly agree that the sense of entitlement is rampant in America; and women (this being a gynocentric society) will suffer it worse than men. But it’s also difficult to avoid the mathematics.

    For example, something like 62% of US marriages end in divorce. The rate even among Christians is around 40%. However, among foreign-born women, the rate is about 15% (slightly higher with American men than with immigrant husbands). The Census showed that only 1/3 US children are living with a father—and only 24% with their natural fathers. Foreign-born women make up about half of these intact families.

    Like you said, the world is full of sin and iniquity; but there our culture actually encourages such sins and iniquities; whereas other cultures do not. If a man is seeking marriage or a relationship as part of the pursuit of righteousness that you mentioned, his chances of fulfilling it outside of our culture are exponentially better.

  15. the rate is about 15% (slightly higher with American men than with immigrant husbands

    In my early red pill days I found a statistic from the immigration dept. showing marriages between American men and foreign brides from a certain regions had 19% divorce rate. Regardless of 15 or 19 or on the margins, it is compelling, very compelling. While all that sojourner says is true, the numbers are what they are and if a man is looking big picture it is reasonable to choose better odds.

    Sojourner and I have discussed many times how today , from a strict marriage stability standpoint, marrying unequally yoked to a woman with a soft and open teachable heart will more consistently end with a marriage that in its form honors the concept of Christian marriage than to marry a churchian woman and all the churchian tenets that go into today’s flawed notion of what it even means to be equally yoked.

  16. Empath:
    Like a lot of Biblical metaphors, ‘equally yoked’ is misunderstood because so few people know how things worked in agrarian societies. When a farmer yoked a team of oxen or horses, he always paired a dominant animal with a submissive (or as you put it, soft, open, and teachable one) and the two worked together as team, with one following the other. Basically it was only a matter for the farmer to control the lead animal and the other would follow; in fact he could harness even more pairs behind the first and control even large teams of 4-8 animals this way.

    I suppose in the Biblical metaphor is that Christ was like the driver, while the yoked pair moved in the same way. Trying to do it in the way the Churchians describe where the two are equally dominant would make the yoked team impossible to manage since each would pull in its own direction.

  17. Why would that matter? Unless he is a eunuch he is looking for the lift in one sense. But in another, and more importantly, the lift is as explained metaphor for approval. If you read literally, you read incompletely.

  18. If your going to compare devorce rates among nationalities you also have to take into account the dynamics of how the men and woman behave and are brought up.hispanic males hold allot more power in their scosialistic circles than do say whites,by a long way,hispanic females are as proven to be what the hispanic males call”obediant” they do not question their men and if they do,they are basically ignored,if you think what you see on tv is a good representation of their lifestyle think again,they are what a white female would argue as being 100 years behind the ball.
    Fact is their is no structure in white or black families and it’s getting worse,black (their children are sitting at almost 80% as having no dad in the home),and they do as they please without taking responsability for their children ,not all but most,tax payers pick up the rest,but the mental confusion for the kids is well,…how would boy grow up in a house full of girls ,just wanting away and was taught so very well just how to do it.
    And whites their men are just suppost to go to work hand over check and pay 46 to 70 % taxes and just shut up,our daughters learn that men are a comodity,and have a hell of a time having stable relationships,I got bitched out for opening a door for a woman who was loaded down with store goods”who do you think you are” u men make me sick”wow right?and how about marry christmas,oh no! it’s happy holidays! even though without CHRIST having a birthday there would be no holiday,the woman that believe that men are ugly their bodies are ugly,that sex is a violent act and that they have a supirior understanding is staggering considering,the millions of men that fought and died for their right to be and idiot,we are not taught that not all blacks wanted slavery to end,about 30,000 fought for their families they have that they were sold to by their tribal elders,why? it was their family,it was not all roots! people your little boys are going to be walked on people pleasers or mean basterds,woman say where are all the men at? simple your raising robots,with no power to exspress themselves,no drive to get beaten down by speaking their minds,and you bitch if they get angry,yet if they do draw a tear then they have mamma issues,I think some woman need to back off.
    And the newest studies on rape and abuse show woman doing it to males at a much earlier age when they are so very impressionable that they will do almost anything they want,most men target older woman and the scores? if 50% more men would speak up(which they wont) puts woman as more of the abusers ,do I condone violence against woman,NO! I condone it against no one!does not matter man or woman,are we so diffrent?and whats with this race crap.we are all human race with diff.nationalities ,damn.
    Im not a practicing church guy but look who is going in your area,whites a little, black,only in main blocks,hispanics at least half of them,you draw your own conclusions..
    The fact i brought up ar listed in the governmental sites in an evaluation of abuse across the country,it is not easy to find ,it’s not to prove a point that i bring these up,it’s to show just how dead set against men some woman are,if your looking at me as a pig and an ass hole then you just might need to step back and see why my opinion and stating facts by the government you run to to pass yet another law,to protect woman without giving a damn about your men and what they go through,then your abusing the power that you have been given by your fathers and grandparents that fought so hard for equal respect ,being able to tell each other things that make you cry from embarrasment and knowing that it will be ok,Ive all but given up on trying to show people that you cant respect people and group hate the very same at the same time,they do not care.
    acountability,responsability,love,compassion,and open arms to all little girls and boys who need moralistic values,not men are bad,better to hemmerage that boy by kneeing him than know for sure it was him,better to emotionally abuse that little girl so she developes bpd and herself becomes a people pleasure with the unavoidable hurt them before they hurt u,right?wrong! birth control is there for a reason,abortion,ya in cases of insest,rape endagering mothers life,your right to choose would not be an argument if allot more woman took responsability and understood you gave up that right for after conseption birth control when you had unprotected sex,what is so damn hard about that?
    Guess you end up having a boy instead of the girl you wanted and then he will be hated by ur denied child just as he is hated by his dad quitly,sinse he might just not be his,I give up.government has no place in birthcontrol or medical,has no place redistributing everything I work for to people i don’t even know,and has no business,deciding the course of my life,I dont want their help,so STOP ASKING FOR MORE handouts!,take responsability and love you fellow people help,and stop looking to government,look to each other ,STOP hurting woman and woman stop hurting men,I know if we were abused ourselves early in life it can cause real repeatabilty it’s within us all,lets start helping these folks,men and woman and understand,we all hurt,love need,want to give and need to be someone for somebody,we ALL need these things,demonizing either sex or any nationality wont solve a thing and niether will government,we can,lets sart listening to all sides every where.
    Let the cursing of my soul and hatered of the fact I’m a white male fly.

  19. Yashar,I seen nothing in there,nothing that can explain away the abuse that people also recieve given the things they do?you think that people as children before somethings changes them into the beast they are to become said”When I grow up I want to be a junky”or a rapist?if you hate men so much why don’t you explain why you do?tell the story of what caused you to hate the very sex u are and why you use an organization like the church to validate everything you believe is bad in the world. You do realize that you are saying that sinse it came out that molestation was happening in the church( to boys) that you really dont address that just try to show it as proof that what so many people in this world believe in,one way or another,(in a god)are all wrong and your all right?people don’t go to church to learn how to hate,yes some get an over bloated sense of how perfect they are but thats their issue,not ur’s,people don’t become polititions or presidents,teachers,police or any number of things to cause pain,if you think that then I
    feel sorry for you,I was raped for 2+ years of my life as a young boy by 3 teenage girls,but I dont hate woman and I understand their cause today,I dont understand their disrespect and their new found right to use and let men fall in love just to break their hearts on purpose,that is evil and I think you need to look at why you hate so strongly,every man and every woman out their that has been through the pain of which you speak and now get hurt at you throwing the man she has found to hold her up to the world and show everyone how proud he is that she will have him and how much she will support his strength and yes even his weaknesses,these things you say will bring back questions of false hope,is she really loved by this man,how can she be happy and supported herself when everything that woman say they want in a man is constantly under attack,I am a man and I have no clue what woman really want,do you? ask one,you will get”if you dont know then I guess your not a man”see it’s their way of saying “never let them see you cry”don’t show weakness,who ever taught woman that they lose something by being feminen has really hurt this world.
    Woman you can be femenin and lose nothing,you want to know what a man is their you go,we look up to ur ability to show whatever emotion wherever you need to,if it’s you,and not fake ,we love you even more for it and we will respect your honesty compassoin and truth,cause we (if moralistic) have to,hell you ever seen a man ……ok most men try to lie? funny right,show us we do matter to u and most men if you chose wisley will tell u are dreams and put our very life in your hands,u doubt me start asking men and 99% of the time they want a woman that is real,no games ,call us on our shit,but understand we do need to hear you will listen or help us through it,the same as when your mother is coming over and your so paniced you cant breath,we take care of that,it’s equal.and it’s fair.
    You hate men or woman?dont spout out media spillings and every other factoid,without showing why u have the right and the need to reach people you claim to care about without showing them why it is you can relate to them so much,or are we just sheep jumping on a band wagon in protest for a cause they dont even know about.
    Tell your story ,no one will judge you,fact you might find there is more to us men and woman in the way of understanding than you felt exsisted.

  20. @ Cameron…. somewhere in all of that is the thought that when two people have a marriage or a semblance of a good relationship, they should never go to the other spouses mother or brother for support and to have those family members bully the other spouse into some sort of conformity, but instead talk to their mate about what needs to be done to correct a given situation…and yet western society decries arranged marriages, but when you look at the social pressures thrust upon peoples intimate relationships, the meddling, the polling, the studies, government reports – etc, etc. how is it that all those other parties are not butting in? In fact, the only two people who really can resolve their own issues are the people with the issues in the first place- so why can’t those two people work out their own issues without everyone else chiming in or minding their business and giving their version of what happened when they were never there in the first place to even know what goes on – cause thats the part that is really crazy and frustrating – that is the part where as a culture, the USA is unlike any other. There are just no boundaries, and the respect of dual last names honoring both mother and father in the Hispanic community is interpreted as ignored? Wow, never knew that! See that Mary statue on the lawn – oh, their ignoring their partner all the time, sure! And so, it seems its always everyone else, who knows more about what honor, equality, relationships are about, instead of the people that actually have that kind of relationship but prize it and never share, lest it cause envy and strife.

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