How to unleash and encourage insidious evil in the world

Here is all the material you need:

http://mensteppingup.com/super-saturday-february-2-2013/

I want to be clear, I can at once dislike the drumbeat of anti conservatism I read around the sphere AND dislike the efforts of so called Christian conservatives like those doing this outreach called, predictably, Men Stepping Up (yawn).

The eager looking profile pics, the attention grabbing headlines and bullet points that will be used, the air of “this is edgy stuff men, we will not apologize like all those other churches, we are not afraid to tell it like it is”. It seriously makes me want to unleash a tirade like that one Chevy Chase let fly after he learned he was not getting a Christmas bonus, but mine laden with profanity and with spittle flying and growling noises and stuff.

This is a joke right? They are kidding….gotta be. These guys are going to act like they are doing something new, when its something thats done weekly from most pulpits, they are going to act like they are pioneers when the ground has not only been plowed before, its barren from over doing it. Oh, and their wives, and the wives of the poor shmucks who will attend the churches hosting this crap….will they “bless their husbands with some love” that night? (that is a quote by a woman from a recent article on Family Life) Will there be t-shirts? How about weeping , gnashing, and wives rubbing circles on husbands backs as they rerererererererererererererererererere commit to get this all right and be the man wife God called them to be.

Im sick beyond sick of this. If anyone knows of any churches hosting this garbage, please post that info here. Even if I am all alone doing it, I will write letters and emails to every church I discover that is doing it. If FL publishes a list i will mail them all something. We have to be out against this because they are driving the last bit of oxygen out of whats left of Christian marriage in this country.

 

 

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27 thoughts on “How to unleash and encourage insidious evil in the world

  1. Maybe they will surprise you. Ok I don’t really think so either, but who knows. Perhaps one of them will see sense and speak the truth. Stranger things have happened.

  2. Who are you mad at, in this post? I’m genuinely not understanding.

    For me: I watched the “trailer”, and what I saw was slick and overdone marketing. I get insulted by such things, because–in addition to that fact that I’m neither a woman or queer and so emotionally false advertising irritates me–what it’s going to turn out to be is a cookout, with a bunch of cubicle-dwelling losers moaning about their porn use, and prayers that are way too long.

    Now, porn is really and truly bad for the man. (I haven’t read about women’s issues, but I would suspect similar.) Any man using it should stop for his own sake.

    Also, yes, I said loser. Most men are choosing to lose, and I truly don’t understand it. God help me, but I understand cheating with a real woman more than I understand regular porn use. Porn use doesn’t make a man a cheater. It makes him a coward.

    Otherwise, what these men need is a boot camp as physical as the military, but with classroom time devoted to understanding what it means to be a man, and how women are FUNDAMENTALLY ill-suited to be men. That doesn’t mean she shouldn’t take out the garbage–women are excellent kitchen maids. It means that when she can’t make up her mind, you make it up for her, and don’t accept any deviation from it. Be unapologetically angry, but in control. No yelling or hitting, and keep working on what needs to be worked on…but in silence. The war is won or lost in the skirmishes over what to have for dinner.

    Things like that.

  3. “this is edgy stuff men, we will not apologize like all those other churches, we are not afraid to tell it like it is”
    translation
    “It’s okay for men to cry”
    there’s a few others that I can no longer remember having been out of church for awhile.

    Cane, it is a LOT of crap. It does nothing – NOTHING – to build men up. The men who attend often do so superficially. They want to be there, but they don’t immerse. Even if there was something to immerse into. And porn, it is pretty much expected that you confess that.

    At least a couple of the speakers, I would have no desire to ever hear again.

    I am just reminded about Promise Keepers. I cannot believe the feminists were up in arms about that stuff. But now i am thinking. All these men’s events are geared toward what a man can be (potential). All these women’s events are geared toward (some fantastical vision of) who “you are” (current reality).

  4. @CC II

    So we see the same thing, then. This is what I was getting at, but you were more concise:

    ” It does nothing – NOTHING – to build men up. The men who attend often do so superficially. They want to be there, but they don’t immerse. Even if there was something to immerse into. And porn, it is pretty much expected that you confess that.”

    It’s perverse all the way around. No building up. Nothing substantial to commit to, from the organizers. No commitment from the attendees. And, yes, confession of porn use for the purpose of (tada!) beating men down. News flash to the organizers: Porn is already doing that. It’s use is a symptom of weak men, and not the catalyst.

    “It’s okay for men to cry”

    Leader: “It’s ok for men to cry.”

    Attendee: “I should hope so, but–if it’s all the same to you–I’d rather you just stop telling women to kick me in the balls.”

    ———-

    I want to add a point to my previous comment: Men do these things–we non-Dark Triad men–are motivated by a desire to provide for our women; to love them. I don’t argue with my wife over where to eat dinner so that I get my way. I do it so she’s content. The lie is that she wants to get her way. No! She wants to be important; to matter. Doing whatever she wants (giving her the lead) doesn’t make her think she matters, it makes her think he doesn’t.

    In fact, I don’t argue with her about it at all. I ask, she waffles, and I drive where I think would be best while she pretends to pout.

  5. Voddie Baucham is good, I agree. Good messengers usually seek the lowest common denominator though.
    Cane, it is obvious who/what I am angry at. Im angry that this seminar exists, Im angry at the men who will present their material. Im angry at the formula that has some guy standing up speaking saying , “guys, Im not gonna lie, today I aint pullin punches, you are going to be uncomfortable and men NEED to be uncomfortable”….and the rest of the stupid formula where they lay out a couple of facts, use some self effacing humor, and then encourage weeping and show where men CAN be if we’d just man up and do it. Im pissed about that and have been since the very first time I encountered it.
    You have added to the list of who Im mad at….those cubicle dwellers milling around at these things, the “new Christian” men who have found the Personal Jesus and well anyway you know the drill. They are losers. There are sadly some men who go there and genuinely need to be gathered around by Christian brothers. And what happens at these things instead of sending Christian warriors out…trained….it sends man servants out…..trained.
    Im angry that this stuff SELLS. It sells to weak men. It sells to women who then tell theor men to attend. It sells to the hurting and desperate who may have been kicked out and think this is how she will see him worthy to go back.
    Im also angry that this stuff is a form of emotional pornography for women. Ive written it before, I will never forget my friends wives standing in the driveway, as we picked him up and headed for the Promise Keepers conference, and the women who came out to the van had that look…that “Suzy sent her husband to this and he came back a changed man”….obedience school, the man whisperer, crap!

  6. Thanks for the exposition, Empath. I’ve never been to a Promise Keeper’s event, or any of these affairs. I’ve read about them, but never been.

    What I have attended, when I was a teenager, was many, many church “youth rallies”. They sound exactly the same, and they don’t work either.

    This was an excellent point that I had thought around, but you nailed:

    It sells to women who then tell theor men to attend. It sells to the hurting and desperate who may have been kicked out and think this is how she will see him worthy to go back.
    Im also angry that this stuff is a form of emotional pornography for women. Ive written it before, I will never forget my friends wives standing in the driveway, as we picked him up and headed for the Promise Keepers conference, and the women who came out to the van had that look…that “Suzy sent her husband to this and he came back a changed man”….obedience school, the man whisperer, crap!

  7. Oh indeed on the selling. And the selling part gets conflated, I will explain.

    There is the direct aspect of selling, like dollars come in from the event, proceeds, useful funds….like that.

    But in some ways, worse, is that they conflate that with efficacy. They conflate the fact that there are weak men and strong women (strong and conniving women sending men to these to subvert them) who subscribe makes it look like they are meeting a need, that they are effective. So they get money, and they get positive reinforcement in numbers. Heck, later they even get those goofy videos of the man and women where every time he tries to explain just how big an ass he was, he chokes up and dribbles more mucus over the front of his new “Men Step Up….2012 Conference” t-shirt. She finishes his sentences for him. Good grief man, that will cause a shuddering empathogasm in many a woman, she sees that woman there praising her newly hobbled husband and the husband needing……NEEDING…..that wife emotionally.

    Look at that this way. How do we men think about a scenario where a guys wife seems to want and need him sexually. that is HUGE. It works just like that for women and the lust for empathy or other forms of emotionally experiential pleasure. The thing is she had to make an emotional mess out of the marriage (in her mind) so she could go out and get some empathy, until she got hubby into training, now she is selling her whole plan. WHOLE PLAN starts way before the conference. It starts with a woman being a raw emotional nerve walking around the house. It starts with disallowing of any restraint on emoting. That creates drama which DESERVES empathy, and the pleasure builds just like a sex act, intensity, eagerness, open mouthed breathless urge, and finally, she hits climax.
    What can she do after? Well, those who want to stay married can only then sell this crap vicariously. Others file divorce seeking a repeat.

    Simplistic? Yep. True?….mainly.

  8. @Empath

    Look at that this way. How do we men think about a scenario where a guys wife seems to want and need him sexually. that is HUGE. It works just like that for women and the lust for empathy or other forms of emotionally experiential pleasure. The thing is she had to make an emotional mess out of the marriage (in her mind) so she could go out and get some empathy, until she got hubby into training, now she is selling her whole plan. WHOLE PLAN starts way before the conference. It starts with a woman being a raw emotional nerve walking around the house. It starts with disallowing of any restraint on emoting. That creates drama which DESERVES empathy, and the pleasure builds just like a sex act, intensity, eagerness, open mouthed breathless urge, and finally, she hits climax.

    Yes. A woman’s issue, but a husband’s problem, and usually her father’s fault.

    This is where I can see a want for Game, or something like it. Still not sold on the need for it, though…at least not as presented.

  9. This is one of the advantages of my husband being un-churched in his youth. Please note that I didn’t say “unChrisitian”, I said “unchurched”.

    It has never occurred to him that he needed to attend a rally such as this one or promise keepers to achieve or grow in godly manhood.

    And frankly, it has never occurred to me try and send him off to one of these things. Wait, that isn’t completely true. I’m sure it occurred to me when Promise Keepers was all the churchian rage a decade ago. It just never occurred to me to suggest that he go, because I knew better than to do that. Now I wouldn’t want him to.

  10. It occurred to men who were already supplicants, and it occurred to wives who wanted a supplicant.
    I was right in the thick of all that, and dumb and ignorant as a box-o-rocks about men’s issues. I was pathetic with the best of them, wearing that t shirt with the ten promises on it, weeping and singing, cheering when the speaker said “listen to that men…those male voices in praise”….and that’s really sick in a way because male voices in praise IS INDEED AWESOME. But it is not awesome because it represents some revival of men that has been long time coming, which is what they would say. All coming together for praise represents some revival…I get that…but this is seen as like a huge spiritual AA meeting where collectively men say “Hi, my name is man, and I am really badly messed up, I am mean to my wife and verbally abusive, I am constantly thinking of porn, looking for chances to cheat, and my beer and buddies have too long been my hearts desire, and now Im here to show her I can be that SERVANT leader”

  11. “Hi, my name is man, and I am really badly messed up, I am mean to my wife and verbally abusive, I am constantly thinking of porn, looking for chances to cheat, and my beer and buddies have too long been my hearts desire, and now Im here to show her I can be that SERVANT leader”

    Exactly, it’s rather ridiculous, the way men are encouraged to emote like women in groups under the guise of worship. My husband would say something like this in any preacher’s presence without blinking:

    “I’m not perfect, but I am not into porn, or on the prowl, nor a drunkard. Playing Call of Duty isn’t a sin, and you will not make me stand up and weep over sin that is not sin or sin that isn’t mine. I know my faults, and I’ll confess them, but telling my wife what to do is not among them. Woman! Where is my food? I’m hungry.”

    And yeah, sometimes he actually calls me “Woman” the way he did this morning when I didn’t have his clothes ironed on time. I’m so oppressed.

    Catch you later, Empath.

  12. Coffee Crazed

    I am just reminded about Promise Keepers. I cannot believe the feminists were up in arms about that stuff. But now i am thinking. All these men’s events are geared toward what a man can be (potential). All these women’s events are geared toward (some fantastical vision of) who “you are” (current reality).

    I wanted to tweek this…or add to it anyway. Ive been saying for years that men’s outreach is corrective, and women’s is about encouragement. That would differ a tiny bit from what you say in that it would be not about who “you are” but rather who you are VERSUS who you THINK you are. What I mean is its about self esteem. Glance at any church website that offers ministries for men and women and you will find this pattern.
    Men’s are about fixing men….porn, anger, addiction, communication (be like a woman) etc
    Women’s have titles like “be the princess that you are in Gods eyes”, or “stop believing the lies of the enemy”.
    There is a plague of low self esteem among Christian women. That, superficially, incites all sorts of sympathy and concern and calls to action, and I bet dollars to felafels that there is a segment of this men step up conference dedicated to how men must fix the esteem of women. It will not be that plainly laid out, but its there.
    The problem is there is no reason for the self esteem problem in the vast majority of cases. Where a man has truly and really ground down his wife verbally, that situation sadly does exist. It is orders of magnitude less common than we are led to believe, because what happens is a couple argues, and the woman “loses” the argument….he yelled, or he was mean…whatever, and she calls that abuse and esteem robbing…anyway that’s a different topic.
    The esteem issue is pure emotional porn use, its like vicarious sex in daydreams, manufacture a drama and wallow in it, and with the entirety of the church having a murmur of sympathy for women’s esteem issues it is natural that churchy men pander to churchy women. This circle of events is as close to a mating dance as we can get in a platonic and uniquely Christianized scenario.
    The men are motivated by positive female feedback, “oh you are soooo courageous Joe, going against culture and the like”….the men get a jolt from that. The women get a constant supply of sympathy and empathy.
    Root cause is hard to establish in a feedback loop system like this. But the womens self esteem issue is a good place to try and get a stake in the ground and (Jane) stop this crazy thing. How about some “Women Step Up” conferences?!
    Imagine stadiums of women being told to, well, man up sorta, regarding the esteem thing, and then told how to comport with men, namely their husbands. Imagine that! Imagine the outcry and gnashing, the floods of angry women exiting the stadium, then the churches emptying of these women and a hand full of families, and a few men w/ guts to attend against wife’s will are left to rebuild.

    Coffee fueled morning rant over

  13. Here’s the thing though. It’s not the existance of these and similar seminars that’s the real problem. The problem is the existence of these seminars and the nearly total absence of similar ones with the same message to women. If the message were EVERYONE men and women needs to do a better job at fulfilling God’s call on their life, it would be fine. Of course if that were the message then then the message to me would change in a not so subtle way where the “it’s all your fault” part would be left out.

  14. No it’s not her father’s fault,it’s the fault of the Chuch and society at large. Even the most well adjusted young woman who had the best most affectionate and supportive father in the world can fall prey to this non-sense. It’s too widespread and too much the perceived norm.

  15. I disagree. Ive come to see that buried in these seminars is training for men to supplicate while appearing to lead. The perversion of the term SERVANT leader, the twisting of the scriptures to create a masculine sacrificial lamb who will, in life be an emotional pin cushion (think sexual pin cushion for women) and show the willingness to give his life….well, but…only if that doesnt leave her in a lurch.
    These seminars are wrong in a vacuum and in the presence of one’s for women. THESE seminars should actually contain sections ABOUT women…teaching men that stepping up means look here what women will do wrong, and what you need to watch out for and keep her away from doing….you are responsible men…..AND you are empowered to keep these sins that women commit out of your home. Explain the hyper-emotionalism and manipulations and such to men and show men how to lead through that…..then, yea, Im ok.
    But this seminar is saying men step up by teaching men how to lay down

  16. good expositing!

    What I want to see is a men’s conference that is kicked off with…

    “Are the penises in the house???!!!!”

    couldn’t resist.

  17. I see what you are saying and maybe my thoughts were unclear because they were taking too simplistic an approach. It is only within the current framework of men being the entire problem, the framework of men needing correction and women needing affirming that the whole servant leader nonsense has any traction. As it is servant leader essentially means that he is to lead wherever she says to “lead” her because she’s obviously more spiritually in tune with God. If we were within an accurate framework where both genders are equally flawed, equaly in need of accountability, equally needing to “step up” then the whole servant leadership thing, as it has been distorted, pretty much falls apart.

  18. Do men hold other men to account in order to pander to women? I had not though about that, and its depressing. I love that I have been held to account, and that I have held friends to account…privately, man to man. I think men do that better than women….big time.

    But what about more public displays of accountability? Are they just that? Displays like ahat will happen in this stupid seminar? Are some of them born of men fearing women?

    IO was talking to an old dear friend of 25 years. He has been kicked out of his house, for a separation, and is staying in a borrowed room somewhere. He and I have been thru lots together, w/ our wives and marriages etc. In our conversation yesterday an example of women not holding women to account was discussed, and when I said “see man, women dont hold women to account”…..he said no no he cant agree with that, he said he needed to think that over but that he felt I was wrong on that. We had literally just run thru a textbook example of a repetitive situation showing that women do not hold women to account, AND that men DO hold men to account….ie. He and I!

    He is not red pill yet even after 20 plus years of being thrown out and allowed back in for various reasons. Cane…he lives near you, just a trivia fact. I think he sees things through the man bad woman good lens and that it is good to hold a man to account because it pleases the women.

    This is profoundly sad

  19. Game is really no different than what women are encouraged to do all the time. Much of the advice given to women as to how to relate to their husbands is every bit as conniving and manipulative as the worst of the Game. The only difference is that it’s couched in more politically correct terms, the manipulation is more subtle.

  20. Do men hold other men to account in order to pander to women?

    Some do. I think it’s the weakness aspect. Many women, especially Church women, like to prove that men are weak because they’re unrepentant harpies and skanks who are terrified to be held account themselves. Consequently, they love to hear about “broken men” from the leadership; because a broken man dare not say a thing to them. They love to hear it from their husbands. They thrill to hear phrases like “broken men”, “wounded men”, etc. The accountability partner just feeds into that. “Oh, he’s accountable to someone…that means he’s a weak and wounded man.”

    When Jesus encountered lepers and the blind, they left whole and seeing, but when he encounters a modern Christian, they become weak and wounded.

  21. I started a post about your reply here. This notion that people were healed by Christ back then, these days they are broken and wounded….and these two things are supposedly the evidence of the encounter with Him…the fruit, which is a word Christians just love to use because it is prone to such subjectivity.

    I have always found that considering the immediate and perfect healing Christ brought, or immediate and perfect rendering of wisdom or opinion, whatever…it was immediate and perfect, comparing that to what we see today…..back to my core issue…..today its about empathy. Loosely it can be said to be about emotional experience….I lump it under empathy as that is the most prevalent and specific one.

    Contemporary Christian music is many times, maybe most times, a celebration in wallowing.
    This comment Cane is great. Todays healing means we are blubbering and broken…thats the “symptom” of being healed today.

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  23. Mark Driscoll??? Anyone sharing a stage with him I will totally discount in the future. Not big on stages in the first place, so that is strike one. What, couldn’t they book Todd Bentley to discuss the finer points of remarriage and speaking with angels?

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