Over at Christian Men’s Defense Network poster maximum wrote a post that was the very embodiment of the churches admonition to men as it relates to how we comport ourselves in marriage. We have read it and heard it over and again for decades, along with the scripture that backs it up. He described the servant sacrificial leadership that is de rigueur in the church today, the same lesson you will get if you attend pretty much any protestant church today.
I responded that he was putty in the hands of today’s church. then he said:
Empathologicalism why is it I felt you would respond the way you did! Have you not seen me post my absolute distaste for the IRS 501 c3 churches of present day? I listened to what you have to say and most of it is woman bashing. Maybe you should read the Song of Solomon. I do agree there are times when a man needs to be the leader and put his foot down in a marriage, and there are times when he needs to be understanding, but most of all he needs to “rule his house well”. However beating his bride over the head will get a man no where.
1 Corinthians 7:3 Let the husband render vnto the wife due beneuolence: and likewise also the wife vnto the husband. Bet you would like to rip that one out of your bible. I will give you one you will like. Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, euen as Christ is the head of the Church: and he is the sauiour of the body. and this one 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would haue you knowe, that the head of euery man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Now the question “What did Christ do for the Church”? Didn’t he lay his life down for the Church? How many for you would lay your lifes down for your wifes, or any other woman? No BS put yourself in the line of fire and die in the flesh for a woman. I’ve seen to many big mouths run their mouths then hide behind a woman! Then want to run around the house like he is a God!
Ephesians 5:25 – Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Empathologicalism that is sometimes even a sacrificial love! That didn’t say be her door mat, or slave! No normal woman would respect a man like that. To summize what I have seen on this site, you don’t have issues with women as much as you have issues with the word of God.
I’m as sure as the grass is green you will come after me, just to keep fueling that pride, the very thing that keeps you from truely understanding women.
1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
In light of the recent discussions here about frivolous divorce, and even divorce with grounds, and how it should hold a position of primacy as a manosphere topic, maximum has afforded a platform from which we can get back to first principles.
Maximum frames it up as men must die to self and be servant leaders and stand in the line of fire for women, putting her needs and those of his family above his own. He offers scripture to support that. And guess what, so far so good, the words he writes are true. But his mistake and the mistake of the entire churchian complex is to juxtapose these admonitions against a raving ego-maniacal lunatic man running a command and control structure, forcing mindless obedience and a wife to behave as a(a favorite term of theirs) doormat. He/they MUST use this comparison, because if a tiny sliver of light finds its way in between these two positions, his vision of the servant leader, and his alternative painting of me/us as maniacs, that sliver of light may illuminate a truth that he is extremely uncomfortable with because it will make him have to stand against the one authority that he follows almost as unquestioningly as he does God. That is the authority of his wife, and by extension The Christian Woman.
As I said, the words are true. Its the specifics of function where it goes wrong. Its the lack of examination of the principles and the lack of testing the function to see where it leads that leads him/them astray. Its much better to just repeat the scripture and some general catchphrases about serving because those are universally pleasing to the women and in most men’s experience they are the only safe way to cover these topics in mixed company. The consequences of even a hat tip in another direction are……you must be an ego maniacal control freak demanding obedience from a doormat.
The frame is portrayed by preachers and Christian men that are not preachers alike as a scenario where most teaching on submission is overdone in the direction of obedience, man as BOSS, not as leader. Somehow they seem to actually believe that this IS the predominant teaching and belief set. In fact it is crucial that they believe this because without it they cannot INVENT SACRIFICE. I will explain.
Assume it was true, that the church was destroying marriages by turning men into ogres, and that the momentum had been building that way for decades, and that women were being pushed so hard that they had to divorce lest they live under tyranny as such. Now imagine you want to help and you know that most men feel that the ogre way is the best way. If you came out with a genteel message about servant leadership, it would be courageous. You would lose respect and be ridiculed by men across the church community. If you were a national Christian leader you’d be publicly derided. If you are just a regular guy you’d by derided by men in your sphere.
In other words, to convey this message would be…….a sacrifice. How many times do men have to really really sacrifice anything anymore? We don’t find bullets to step in front of, and while sitting through a chick flick is tedious, well, that’s sacrifice today. So, they find a sacrifice to make and create a reality in which to make it, because it is no more the case that ogre teaching is the widespread norm than the moon is made of Ben and Jerry’s.
The one fact that these men cannot admit is that generally, men want to make women happy. Men want and like happy women, and men ARE INDEED willing to sacrifice, men like to sacrifice, men like to lead through difficulty and take burdens on and bear the brunt. It is easy to see that they know this too, intellectually, but that they have walled off a fake reality in which the cognitive dissonance is not uncomfortable. They recognize men like to bear the burdens when they admonish men “don’t fix, just listen”….that is men being men when they want to fix things even at their own expense.
The obvious truth is that their way of believing is the teaching and has been the teaching for decades now. If they admit this, it removes the illusion of courage and sacrifice from their proclamations. They lose the appearance of invented courage and sacrifice.
At 30,000 feet you should be able to see that the church has moved consistently closer to egalitarianism, while preaching that the church is teaching men to be ogres, and then they tell men to step up and dont do what those other guys are saying. meanwhile, families are destroyed. Either men really are stupid and morally inferior, or something else is wrong. the something else is that women are being deceived. They are just as prone to it as anyone else, and if men sat under teaching that was the reverse, gender wise, then WE”D be deceived. I mean heck isn’t that what they are all saying was the problem? men were deceived into being bosses not leaders?