Emotion, Ignorance, and Apathy, an Anecdotal Correlation

The title of this post is supposed to be filled with layers of irony and misdirection. Primarily that is because the use of personal anecdote is celebrated as knowledge in the place of real information, and the anecdote is steeped in an emotional view of one’s personal experiences. It may be hard to hear this.

It is easy to dissect, for those who already see it. For those stuck in the feedback loop of emotion>anecdote>opinion and back around again, I have yet to find a way to consistently penetrate. On rare occasion, and only because the person is close enough to me to allow lengthy discourse, have  I actually had someone start on that circle, then peel off onto a linear path. That doesn’t mean at all that they then start to agree with me, it means they try and use something reasoned to support their opinion. Unsurprisingly, those who are able to peel off, usually can find some way to make rational points about their beliefs, or at the very least keep the discourse on the topic, addressing what has been asserted and avoiding straw men and red herrings.

Big issues are big issues. Comfort and ease of life have taken big issues off the people’s radar. Most people jump from one experience, and the feelings it evokes, to the next experience, etc. If asked an opinion of a larger matter, these experiences are what they have to inform them, and usually the most recent experience at that. They are emotionally invested in personal experience, hence they are emotionally invested in opinion. Somehow, because people are people, we all have similar experiences. When talking about experiences, people like to feel empathy, so they tend to morph feelings about experiences into the groups apparent feelings about experiences, then its one big self actualizing empathy cloud as Ive described before. The sense of empathy with those close to them, and even those they encounter online or see in the news or on reality TV buttresses their feelings of being “right”, no greater reason needed than everybody knows that. Operating outside of what everyone knows will make you uncomfortable, maybe even unhappy, unless you find the simple joy of intellectual honestly worthwhile.

Everybody knows Republicans want to starve kids and old people so millionaires can get more money

Everybody knows conservatives are racists

Everyone knows Christians are ignorant closed minded folks

Everyone knows that women are oppressed.

Everyone knows men are untrustworthy, sexually dysfunctional, and morally less than women.

Everyone knows men and women are the same, and the differences alleged are constructs of patriarchy


Huge numbers of people operate under a set of assumptions similar to these, strengthened by “everyone”, and by personal experience which is jaded by preconception. There are also some very bad stereotypes about things like race for example, that were/are equally rooted in ignorance and what everyone knew (________people are _________), and these geniuses see no contradiction in refuting those while embracing these other ones. That the outcome may or may not be correct objectively is secondary, it FEELS correct. That’s where emotion leads to ignorance, refutation of one set FEELS good, affirmation of the other set FEELS good. Why bother subjecting them to standards when how they make one feel is basis enough for picking and choosing? Besides, ignorance really is bliss, and easily angered if the bliss buzz is interrupted. The bliss buzz is best when shared.

This question about application consistent standards to over arching beliefs is important. Intellectual consistency and honesty is important. But a question about the inconsistency cannot be asked, because the silliness is so thick that the most common response would be something like “just because people disagree doesn’t mean they are ignorant”. That is an emotional response, a straw man, and a red herring.

Odd that, the question, if asked, expresses no opinion about anything, yet the response infers some ideological disagreement. Yes I am creating this imaginary dialog, because Ive seen it take place and I’m paraphrasing.

Lets look at an example:

Divorce has been a topic among a group of Christians online. There are men who have the audacity to talk about no fault divorce, ones where there is no infidelity, addiction, or physical violence, having some 60 day “penalty” that would encourage these couples to maybe try harder. No limit on availability, no law changing making divorce less accessible, and no effect at all on those who really want a fault divorce.

On Christian Forum, there are some men who say divorce is generally bad for society. (GASP!) These men explicitly state they favor no laws that would limit access to divorce. No long term penalty for getting divorced, and  no condemnation for those who HAVE divorced. They describe some harmless proposals . To wit:

The problem is, somehow down the rabbit hole went the notion that actually filing a divorce IS one of the reasons for the split. If Im woefully unhappy, and I say she is mean, she wont have sex, we dont get along, I am miserable….I want a divorce….when i go file that, that filing SHOULD go on the list of things that end the marriage, its only logical, it doesnt happen as an out of body experience. I wouldnt take anyones right to file that away, mine included, if I was so unhappy then I want to be allowed to divorce. Im all for that.

But if by filing, THAT ALSO factored into the causation, that it said ok, we will let you out of this marriage, no issue, no waiting, no problem….just for the 60 days before filing you move out and be a visitor to your kids, Id weigh, hmmm, am I REALLY trying to sort this out. Up until I have to make that call, I would tell anyone who would listen that Ive given my 1000% effort, that no one can say they tried harder than me….then something happens, we have put a value on my pain. Is the pain in the marriage so bad, that EVEN WITH this sacrifice of 60 or 90 days of discomfort, Im willing to suffer that little bit rather than rethink my gut level honest evaluation of my efforts to fix it, and would it not be better for everyone , including and most importantly the kids, that I reset myself, set some kind of goal, commit to some effort that if it doesn’t work then, then yes, its worth that small suffering to go ahead and get that divorce.

The person who suffers immediately is the person least likely to file. The abstract of whats to come later is rarely if ever truly thought through, which is why some large majority of no fault divorce filers come to a place before its final that they suddenly see the end and THEN they have this epiphany. Ask any family lawyer about what Im telling you, the ladies that handle as clients filing for true no fault divorces, more than half come with attempts to either reconcile, or worse, attempts to delay finalization for all sorts of reasons. I frankly dont care about anyones personal anecdotes, these are the results of studying the issue over thousands of divorces.

The sheer absurdity of the responses by men and women astounds me. One women describes her husband had a gun and was going to kill her, and how dare we suggest she had been forced to stay in the marriage.

If I had stayed with my ex even a moment longer than I did, my children would be orphans. After 13 years of his addictions and abuse, I found myself running for my life. He had called my then 9 year old daughter into our bedroom & told her to tell me to come talk to him. She came to me & told me that daddy has a gun & please don’t go in there. I took her hand, scooped up my baby boy & ran. As I reached my neighbors lawn, I heard the shotgun being cocked behind me. his intent was to kill me, then himself.

I am so sick of hearing all this. For the record, I am now happily married to a wonderful man who my kids call Daddy. They have a father.

and another women says to her

Yes .. if you’d just gone in there .. maybe he would have just been cleaning the gun. Maybe he was ready to hug and make up. Bah. Or – it was your fault for marrying a man with a habit .. even if he didn’t have the habit when you met him .. and anyway you probably drove him to drugs.

Finally a man comments

I suppose the answer will be…

..but maybe if you’d stuck it out… lol



This part can be skipped, its just more data, to those who don’t understand what data is, its what rational people look at to find truth I will keep pasting new responses here as they show up in the thread,. These will continue, escalating in stupidity until we have it stated that they guys are  for global thermonuclear war, followed by rape pillage and plunder, all that from a comment about no fault divorce.

EDIT  number 1

I thought the degree of ignorance was just about the divorce talk, now its like, like, existential of sumthin

Actually, she is not supposed to have any say in who she marries, but yet, it’s still her fault. She is supposed to go through her life at the mercy of others, and if that means that she and her kids, and their kids, have horrible lives, and end up hating God because they learned that this is what a godly woman does, then oh well, right?

EDIT  number 2

She managed to redirect the topic. Tactic…..succeeds. here is her comment, and this will lead to now a piling on of the evils of these men who beat and threaten women, anecdotal tales of worse and worse instances, maybe a news report or two, she is particularly sold out to the idea that men are rapists, child molesters and murderers based on years of posting. So expect her to link up some (anecdotes) proof. For now, they have the gal they will USE, right where they want her

I wasn’t aware of his drug addiction till a few months After we married when he emptied our savings account. He was a bigger who could be dry for months. The physical abuse started after our daughter was born. We went to our priest, a marriage counselor and I paid for his rehab 3 times. I was anti divorce & a good Catholic girl. We separated once & it was shortly after the birth of our son & daughter’s diagnosis with juvenile diabetes that the abuse escalated. I have no doubt in my mind that I would have been a statistic instead of a survivor. The sound of the gun being cocked is permanently burned into my mind.

EDIT number 3

Full circle, its one hour later, exactly as I predicted, they are posting news articles about male killers. They are so patterned in their ignorance the idea of an original thought is anathema. Everyone knows men are prone to be killers, and other men support th

If someone is being tormented by a dangerous person, then the ability to think clearly is severely diminished. Getting away to process is the only way. If the person reacts violently to that attempt at clarity space, then why should the person go back to that dangerous environment? Have you ever heard of Thomas James Ball? He honestly couldn’t get why his evil feminist wife made him go to prison or get counseling in order to see his kids. All he did was smack his 4 year old daughter, making her mouth bloody, for licking his hand. He doesn’t see that as non negotiable violent. And who is this guy? He was a leader of the Worcester branch of the Massachusetts-based Fatherhood Coalition. He wasn’t just some isolated madman either. He convinced others to get violent as well. I believe Dalrock holds him up as a martyr, since he doused himself with gasoline.

not to be outdone

It’s ridiculous to suggest that it’s more dangerous to try to escape a violent person that to remain with them. Better to find a safe place before the situation goes nuclear. That way, they only take out themselves.

I guess that people have already forgotten Josh Powell, Scott Petersen, and Drew Peterson. You stay with these people at your own risk, because they will kill, and it doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do to try to appease them. They are inclined to kill by their own selfishness and evil intentions, not by “provocation”.

I guess the same people who would call James Ball a martyr would call Josh Powell a martyr too. Doesn’t matter that in one case a kid was abused, and in another the kids were murdered. Nope. All that matters is that an adult took it into their hands to kill themselves because they had quite obvious psychological problems compounded by innate selfishness. They are no loss. The loss of the Powell kids (and the mom) is another matter. I can only hope that Ball’s daughter survives unmarked from her father’s abuse, and from the subsequent trauma of his suicide. I hope that the family takes her far, far away and she never hears about it again. That’s the only way to defeat bullies. Close the door on them permanently.

EDIT number 4

I cannot leave it just picking on women, and one small comment by a man. A male poster comes in at the very end of the now closed thread and says:

That wasn’t really an answer to my question (although in a way – I think the lack of answer probably *is* very telling).

So – in a scenario like that – would you say that divorce was the right thing for her to do? Or – would the direction of your advice be to simply put some distance between them – and give him the opportunity to “cool off” (but remain married)?

I’m not approaching this solely from a safety standpoint. I’m also approaching this from a “she needs to get away from him…forever, and move on with her life, which also allows for taking on a new non-abusive spouse.”

That’s what I’m getting at.

So, in that scenario, yay or nay?

So, he reads the clearly laid out ideas of two other male posters, then a woman comes in with her horrific (but completely irrelevant to the topic) story, and this man decides he needs clarification from the guys as to whether or not they would suggest she stay and risk being murdered, go away a little while, or is it OK if she goes ahead and divorces. This crazy question has a simple answer…DUH, of course divorce. But more important is the thread dynamic that occurs as a result of such inanity. To have responded in the thread would invite , likely from the women, responses like “so, we have finally determined that they will favor divorce when there is a loaded gun aimed at a woman’s head”. Meanwhile the very premise is clearly no fault divorce that lacks a set of specified grounds.


Reading the initial statement of a casual idea, and these reactions, does anyone thing the Christian church is a place that holds traditional values? Honesty is a traditional value, wisdom is celebrated in church, and yet when a harmless idea is posited the tools used are lies, misdirection and misinformation:

Lies, misinformation and misdirection are rapidly transforming our society into a no-man’s land. Between the half-truths, the outright lies, the spinning of facts and news, the diverting of attention and the attendant knee-jerk responses, what has always been difficult to do now flirts with the impossible.

What about lies, misinformation, misdirection and apathy? They are the flip side of spirituality as well. If we look at the dark side of spirituality, we see the qualities of delusion, confusion, deception, often with an attendant loss of faith. Chasing a pipe dream is delusional in nature and leads to disillusionment. We can use lies, deceit and subterfuge to attain our own personal dream, but at what cost? Our spirit!

That is very effective ginning up FEELINGS. That no one said anything about that, well, that fact be damned. How else can a rational person read that tripe and not conclude that emotionalism has led to ignorance….or worse, that some people are stupid. I prefer for former, its more forgiving. But both are dangerous misuse of the God given ability to reason that we all supposedly have. Nice men try and allow a toe in the door, suggesting maybe there are some guys out there like that. They need to realize that whether there is or isn’t it totally irrelevant. There are freaks in the world, crazy idiots, violent and evil. There always will be. They do not define anyone, to even acquiesce that they maybe said such and such is affirmation to the crazies who misrepresent everything for emotional bang for the buck.

For heavens sake, disagree if you wish, but disagree with whats been stated, not some ignorant emotion based straw man constructed expressly to make people FEEL anger at the initial proposal. Integrity is questionable when these things happen, Ive gone to far as to call it willful lying in the past. Ive backed off that, deciding it is a sad degree of ignorance born of life in an emotional bubble reinforced by the cloud of empathy.

Truly, for GODS sake, this has to be pointed out everywhere, every time. Be prepared, once it has light shined on it, it gets downright vindictive. But, the moral cesspool doesn’t FEEL like a moral cesspool, because, to borrow from the example above, these men advocate that a woman be murdered rather than divorce.

Should people with this type of reasoning be allowed to vote? Should they be sought for advice or relied on to be steady and consistently wise counsel as Christians? Does God change because of what He sees us doing, and how he feels about it? Are there absolutes? If its not fair to ask these questions, tell me why? Defend the display of ignorance.

Do ends justify means, even to the point of lies and distortions?

And what are the ends?

The preservation of a set of feelings, from which a wall is constructed to keep all objective knowledge out, because objective knowledge and truth impairs empathy.


112 thoughts on “Emotion, Ignorance, and Apathy, an Anecdotal Correlation

  1. The ladies have been funneling through every word I ever wrote online. Maybe some of it will sink in. I expect that they will continue to have a conniption of they see this. They seem to think that the bullying they do in that forum should be worldwide and that anything less than that is “hate-speech”. How original huh?

  2. Someone has achieved lightspeed:

    “Calling you out right here & now, Mr I Art Laughing…..

    Using my post in your nasty blog is unconscionable. I want to see you banned. You’re the reason I posted on this thread to begin with. Because I couldn’t stand your moronic babble. It’ll take a lot more than you to bring me or any of the women on here down. Bullies are bottom feeders. it’s all I can do right now not to swear my head off. You’re no better than my ex. I’m sure you fancy yourself an Alpha male. You are a follower, not leader. Does blogging like dalrock make you feel like a real man? I have a real man. Real men, Alpha men, defend, love and care for women, not bring them down. Little omega bullies do that.

    You should be ashamed of yourself!
    I’m reporting you & your blog to the moderators.”

  3. I’m not even going to say wow. It’s so foolish. But remember, the goal is not equality or harmony or peace, the goal is to destroy men. They will never admit this in a billion years, but it is. We need to remember this. They may be hurt confused people, but they have stated that they don’t want peace. It doesn’t matter how many times you say “this is not about the abuse cases or the serious neglect cases or the adultery cases. This is about divorce for unbiblical reasons” they will insist that you mean exactly what you don’t say. But increasingly they are all abuse cases to feminists. Men are abusers, you see, except the handful of submissive good ones–who are not yet aware that at any moment they can be called abusers.

  4. Yep, the guys they like, well, those guys are abusers in training or something, a trigger will set them off.

    The thread was about no fault divorce and folks who disagreed

    Now its about murder

    stuck on stupid.

    But the hits here are WAYYYY up, when can we sell ads?

  5. Oh Empath, I’m afraid the gals won’t read much of this post. You used a lot of big words, and not the big words they have memorized during Bible study. Sad face.

  6. Pingback: Who Aims the Gospel at a gender? | Feminism is Empathological

  7. I’m reading this post and the following comments with a sense of disgust. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. But judging from the comments, you probably aren’t and won’t be. I’m just sad I wasted so much of my time at CF trying to talk sense to some of you.

    Bottom line:
    I am sad I called you brothers. No brother of mine would dare disrespect his brothers and sisters in Christ in such a manner. Go ahead and ridicule me for daring to call you all out. Have fun with that. It’s apparently all you’re good at.

  8. Pingback: Cons' blog - Still No Privacy - Christian Forums

  9. Sorry you are unable to see plain truth. Sorry you are able to read a thread, see a couple guys try and discuss no fault divorce with zero basis for the insanity the ensued, and then the thread swings into murder and rape as a way to gin up emotion and refute those guys.

    You have less than zero credibility. You policed relevance in the men’s area to the level of absurdity, calling men on even reasonable tangents as being off topic. Here, read the OP of that thread…read the posts that lead up to their nonsense, then read the nonsense, then, rationally defend what you are doing here. I will pull down the post if you can make even a remotely reasoned attempt to explain why that lying and conniving is OK by you.

    If you are honest, the reason is we are men.

  10. If that was a reasonable response Id let it stay. Saying that i am an asshole is not an intelligent response. Like I said, if the white knight would like to rationally defend the discourse in that insane thread, I will pull down the post.
    Otherwise, its pander.

  11. Reasonable?
    What’s reasonable about posting people’s comments from CF and ridiculing them?
    Also namecalling, not reasonable.

    Don’t like a response? Call the person a “White Night” and they are magically without credential.

    Saying you’re an asshole is not reasonable. But it is the truth.

    You’re pathetic.

  12. Titus 3:10-11

    10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.

    I’ve allowed my feelings on this subject to carry me away. I pray for you all. Peace be with you.

  13. Hey, WalkswithChrist,

    If you want to talk about bullying why not come out from behind the mods over at the other place and have a real conversation? You are a White Knight and I don’t think you have any concept regarding what you are doing. Bullying is what goes on there and the women seem to have the high ground while shredding God’s word and gutting any requirements for themselves.

    It’s not a marriage board, it’s a feminist board and I’m sure many blogs will be getting plenty of hits mocking it. Congratulations!

  14. IAL, I mentioned bullying over there. If you can’t address me over there where flaming isn’t allowed, well. That’s on you! haha Post a reply to my original comment if you have the courage.
    We can talk here as well, for now anyway. Please tho, on a serious note…let me know when you are willing to discuss rationally without hurling “White Knight” or other labels. I am no longer tolerating those at CF or anywhere else. I really and truly would appreciate it.
    If you, or anyone else, can’t talk to me or others without resorting to emotional labeling, then I have nothing to say to you.

    I came here to post this vid that I just found completely at random. It completely captures how I feel about Cons and anyone else who are allowing themselves to become overly-mired in MRA rhetoric.

    It’s funny too. Feel free to laugh.

  15. Bullying is allowed over there in the form of moderators and the bevy of armor polishers.

    Who gets banned? Why? Gabrielle got what exactly. The hypocrisy is telling don’t you think? Anyone wishing to see how bad it is over at my blog can check it out at ragingvanity.wordpress.com

  16. You posted a ping to on it why don’t you tell me? Did you follow your own link and read what came up? Me quoting Gabrielle from over there.

    I guess when you do it that it’s okay though.

  17. Checking back for that explanation about 2 guys discussing no fault divorce, and being BULLIED by women dragging in murder and abuse, manipulating the emotions of those easily manipulated, and shutting them men down, with the full cooperation of moderators and white knights

  18. Enjoy the video.

    I can’t punch thru the layer of labels, exaggerations, and rhetoric (not to mention the brazen insults you are so fond of using so much) so I’m not going to try. Like I told IAL, I really am sorry we can’t communicate.

  19. Uh, Im asking you to read the CF thread, and see if you can raise the white shield long enough to see if there is anything wrong with such stupid twisting of my and chaz words.

    Keep spinning folks. Im dying to know what I twisted and took out of context, well, since I psted the ENTIRE POSTS. Context?

    Now, a man says “no fault divorce is bad”

    Women says “I had to flee from a murderous husband with a loaded gun, I’m sick of guys saying the stuff you guys are”

    Is anyone open minded and bright enough to see that? To call charges of twisted words and things in this case irony is the worlds biggest overstatement.

    People get really mad when they are impeached. So, they make things about

    A. an emotional matter like murder
    B. Privacy
    C. hate

    And no, I wouldnt expect anyone to have courage to address what actually was said. Why would they? They have all these other fun things to play with

  20. White shield.

    Stupid twisting.

    No thanks. If you want to talk about courage, have the courage to drop the rhetoric and the insults and speak plainly. I must be honest and say that at this point, even if you did do that, I’ve been burned badly enough by you over time that I simply don’t trust you anymore. You said sorry to me not long ago, then went right back to your old ways.

    I’m itching to discuss all this since the issues are very important to me. But I’m not going to for reasons stated.
    Once bitten, twice shy. Well, for me and a few others, we’ve been bitten many times.

    I humbly urge you to reflect on this. Don’t even reply to me. Forget me. Reflect and even pray about what I’ve said. I have done this with regard to these issues several times in recent months and have grown because of it.

  21. The man behind the curtain is exposed. They are full on conflating Christian men with the nonsense being spewed by the SPLC misogyny screed. Femmo-Marxists indeed.

    Welcome to your “church” America.

    ” And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.”
    (Rev 18:2-8)

  22. Your honestly backing femmo-Marxists spewing SPLC lies. Your honestly suggesting that anyone who doesn’t go along with their program is brainwashed. Take a look in the mirror pal.

  23. The narcissists I know are utterly incapable of identifying their faults. I have already done that at least once today with conviction. No one from the other said has even attempted such a thing.

    I can’t figure out if it’s pride, arrogance, or what.
    I’m baffled.

    And yet I am continually met by you and Cons with more derision, insults, assumptions, sarcasm, and disrespect.

    Thanks for the link. You’re probably best served writing one on myopia next…(just a little sarcasm there…)

  24. I guess what started you out of the gates was complaining about what was said here over there because someone was complaining about what was said over there over here. In case nobody has ever told you that is called hypocrisy, and as far as I can tell you are still digging.

    The way that you ran in to the aid of the pack of sophists who will use any device to “win” a conversation was astounding. You earned white knight stripes for eternity for such a move and you blatant drama seeking has moved your hunt for tingles well into the camp of the full blown MANGINA. The women are “debate” in the church and in the society and your are just so happy getting your belly rubbed by godless atheists posing as “Christians”. Yes, the SPLC qualifies as Godless in my book.

    Have fun at the devils picnic.


    Oh my. You sir, are utterly ridiculous!!!!


    Thanks for the laugh. Not the best one I’ve had today, but I’ll take it.

    I will have fun at the picnic. Save me a seat.
    : )

    Now excuse me while I go scrub out my MANGINA…it burns something fierce.
    (dangit, where’s my Icy Hot??)

    I was wrong before. You’re not wasting your keystrokes at all.
    You didn’t tell me you were FUNNY!!!!!!

  26. Avoiding answering the simple question, why is it ok to twist mens words into them being in favor of forcing a woman to stay where she could be killed?

    Is the complicated? You are ridiculous, hiding behind everything you can find. Seriously, if you had any character that was based on objective truth, and not pandering to women, you would admit that taking an innocent discussion on NF divorce and making the men look as if they favor forcing a woman to subject herself to a gun shot is LYING.

    Please stop posting here. I will block the comments as youve truly nothing to say. Youve already said the other stuff, there is only one thing to do….face truth.

    Are you afraid of the women, so stuck on their approval you cannot even measure things objectively, or are you dumb? Its a valid question, and cannot be addressed by your predictable rabbit trails of “if youd stop the rhetoric Id try and reason with you…..buddy, thats crap.

    They misrepresented my posts, BADLY. Those unable or unwilling to see that are either intellectually challenged, panderers, or cowards.

  27. What no answer? You don’t seem to have a problem reading the replies and reporting on them like a good white knight. Do you actually have any valid points? Do you just like to derail and mock and bully without ever actually contributing anything of yourself? If that’s all you can manage than why have you earned anything BUT a label?

  28. Block at will sir! Hell, I’ve been sitting here waiting for the block all day!

    Please don’t let me down.

    My MANGINA just can’t take the anticipation…

    As for hiding, well. I don’t even have a blog. Or ability to threaten anyone with being blocked. I will hide behind integrity and respect. It’s a nice shield indeed.
    I should paint it white…

  29. Actually this bitching and moaning is getting tedious. If WWC wont address the serious initial lies and dessembling that occured, which was a separate and unique action, independent (dud) of my reaction, and chooses to hide behind indignance to my reactions, I will block further comments.

    For the record by the way, to whoever said this was hidden over here, no, it was posted expressly so that it would be seen. For 3 years now the women have run that forum, they have used the willing cooperation of the staff to come down on dissent because its “not nice” hence, step by step eliminating any and all opinions but a form of liberal leftist feminism wrapped in Christianese ribbons and bows. If thats what folks want, have at it. Ranting and raving about my reaction just makes you look more and more foolish for not seeing the pile of manure you are sitting in. I always heard her poop dont stink, but it actually does, and you guys are wwearing cloths pins.

    Raise the legit topic of their “stuff” and I will respond quite respectfully. I dont think you want to discuss the actual issue though, because you have received praise from the ladies, and that feels good.

  30. What feels good is the absolute comedy extravaganza you two are providing!! I’m not even kidding! You guys are great. Ever think about Vegas?

    You won’t respond respectfully. You are incapable. You’ve proved that many times over. I’m not even harping on you for that, just stating a fact.

    Go ahead and block me. No way am I investing in a serious talk with you or IAL ever again. But if you want to trade jabs, trust me…I’m in my element.

    I am a clown with a MANGINA and I’m not afraid to use it!!!

    IAL posted this that I received in an email and for the life of me I can’t find it…
    “What no answer? You don’t seem to have a problem reading the replies and reporting on them like a good white knight. Do you actually have any valid points? Do you just like to derail and mock and bully without ever actually contributing anything of yourself? If that’s all you can manage than why have you earned anything BUT a label?”
    I’ve got your answer buddy right here.
    Talk to the MANGINA!

    Your bullying skills are weak sir. You have been reduced to a joke and you don’t even get that. That’s truly sad. I’ve already said it’s basically Late Night with WWC at this point gents. Ball is in your court.

  31. Well, I have seen enough. I posted my request to delete my account on that site. Let the rats have it. It isn’t worth the time and worry to see the trash being poured out on people needing help in that marriage forum. “Divorce him sweety” and “you go grrllll” on steroids, then they get “onto something” about how everyone not in their clique is brainwashed….oh boy.

  32. No answer. Never an answer. Oh how deftly the idiot moves, never allowing himself to actually engage in any meaningful conversation yet willing himself onto the high ground of presupposed (and imagined) victory. Oh the simplicity of the stupid, how blissful the contentment of the moronic. Winner of ever fight and legend of every time in his mind. They win debates without raising a point, scintillating.

  33. I find this whole thing really sad.

    1. It’s sad that the women on that forum(I used to be a member there, a female member, who was constantly beaten down on verbally by the feminazis who were there) can’t see pass their own hurt and pain, into what someone is REALLY trying to say. No one was saying that a person in an abusive situation should stay married to their abusive spouse. No one said that at all, and yet nearly every discussion on divorce, sex, submission and self-sacrifice always came back to one thing: their own personal experiences with husbands who were second rate; husbands who were selfish and didn’t seem to care about them. It’s sad that they couldn’t see through the blinders of their own experience, or even try to understand what some of the men were trying to say. Instead the men are accused of wanting to oppress women(a CRUEL and very un-Christian thing to suggest), when the men wanted nothing of the kind.

    2. It’s sad that Christians can’t have a discussion without slandering each other. Mentioning the actual usernames of members on CF is very, very low. However, WWC, your actions are just as bad. You went and tagged this blog on the forum, and for what? To cause more trouble, because I guarantee you that’s all that will come of it. To slander the name of the person who created the blog? How Christian of you. If you’re really so against what’s being said here, you shouldn’t even be posting. IAL, you really don’t need to call people names to have a conversation with them. And why call CF members out by name? What did you hope to accomplish? You could have made the exact same point without calling anyone out. I know you’ve been accused of being a woman hater/oppressor, of being against a woman’s rights, of being nothing but a man in search for power…none of which are things that I believe. However, you do come off as a troublemaker when you post things like this and then call people names when they comment. I encourage both, WWC and IAL, to go somewhere private(email, fb, something) and hash this out without name calling, without condemnation, without guilt tripping; discuss your issues with what’s been said and done, and really try to listen to each other. You’re brothers in Christ. Act like it.

    For the record, I agree with IAL as to the “emotional experiences” leading logic and opinion. I know some people don’t want to see it that way, but that is the way things are on that forum. Good people who mean well(like myself, chaz, Cons, McScribe and others) are constantly made to look like the bad guys no matter how often we deny what we’re accused of and try to explain ourselves. Some people only see what they allow themselves to see. That’s why I left CF, and it’s why I will NEVER go back. It’s a place filled with hate, cruelty and malice. I made mistakes while I was there, I said and did things I shouldn’t have, but I was NOT who I was out to be by a certain handful of individuals. For those like WWC who weren’t verbally thrashed every time you posted, it may be difficult to understand where some of us are coming from. But I urge you to try.

  34. Observe the sense of disgust, the shaming, the judging and the total lack of substance.

    His bottom line is not what we said or even how we said it but that we had the temerity to say it at all. And as far as “brothers” are concerned you never demonstrated “disrespect” so well as when you showed up and taught us how to do it properly.

    Also, we won’t ridicule you for “calling us out” when you have done no such thing. Coming in here getting hysterical and “tattling” on us was quite the demonstration of manliness if I do say so myself. Next time bring some substance or don’t bother.

  35. Ah, WWC’s new screed got pulled down whole cloth. I wonder how that is going to get sanitized to the liking of the ladies over at the Feminist Forum. Maybe their can be some more hairflipping and breath holding so that they can still be considered Christians even when they chuck the Bible in favor of their imaginary boyfriend Jesus.

  36. I am very happy to have accidentally run across this blog where speaking honestly and being able to cut through bull crap will reign. I think that forum & their members should no longer be a topic of discussion here. Lets get back to the matters at hand. Can this be made more of a private place?

  37. I’m glad you left. The place is elevated by your leaving. I mean that. You showed your true colors today IAL. I had a measure of respect for you, but that’s completely gone. Same goes for Cons. But I don’t feel any malice towards either of you. For what that’s worth. I wish you both well in your lives.
    As for the thread getting pulled down, good. That was what I foresaw from the beginning. My one and only goal was to inform the members of the true colors of Cons, and others who basically high-fived his antics. And I achieved that beyond my wildest expectation.
    I feel like I’ve yanked a big wad of hair from a nasty clogged drain. The Married forum will need much more work I’m sure, but it has been improved today. Of that I am sure.
    The really sad part however is how the potential of you and Cons has been utterly wasted. I looked up to Cons for a while there as a mentor on the whole MRA subject. But he lost me more and more with the continued disrespectful behavior that culminated on this blog. Other men have made similar comments to me today, so I hardly think branding me as a White Knight is even accurate at all. Not that you guys care about accuracy. It’s all about turning up the volume and being as disrespectful as possible.
    MRA at its core is laudable. But men like you acting like utter douchebags drags down the entire topic right down into the muck. It’s very sad.
    All that said, I hope some real reconciliation is possible in the Married forum.
    I wish you all the best. And I will carry fond memories of my MANGINA for the rest of my life.
    : )

  38. IAL: really? Is this helping? Sarcasm is not going to help things. Yes, the women there have said and done cruel things, and yes they’ve hidden behind a kind of Christianity that feels good to them, but isn’t based on truth at all…but your reactions and responses are only PROVING them right. You sound hateful, self-centered and self-righteous, which is exactly why they think women are better than men(even though they’re filled with the exact same things.) You’ve made your point, and it was a good one…Now let it go. Please. Or, at least, stop the sarcasm, the name calling, the hatred and fight against feminism with patience, and gentleness( the Fruits of the Spirit…exactly what these women don’t think men are capable of possessing) Forgive them for falsely accusing you for all those years, and attack the issue(feminism) and not the people themselves. God loves them just as much as He loves you. These women have been hurt, and as much as you dislike them, they deserve some compassion. Not justification for their wrongdoing, but it’s not your place to punish them. They will receive their just reward for their actions, and you will for yours. Wouldn’t you rather be blessed in the end for your forgiveness and patience, instead of judged the same as they will be?

  39. Janel
    I wrote this blog, Cons, not IAL. I cant tell if thats clear or not. I just woke and found your comments stuck in moderation, now they are free to be posted, sorry.
    I sincerely have to ask, what is “low” about this? I dont get it. I understand that there is a reflexive notion that its “low” to write one place about another, but maybe its just me, I do not understand much of what is called internet etiquette because I cannot figure out the purpose of much of it. Its not real names ir identities, I assure you, that I would never do. The ethics of that would go way beyond internet etiquette. And guess what, they (someone(s)) have started doing that to me now….real name, real life, all that. In fact the hypocrisy is astounding, the vitriol and anger at being challenged outside the protection of the rules is amazing. The rules , as you know, intentionally or inadvertently support evangelical feminist views.

    Much of the “ethical” balance comes from the motive a person has in my opinion. My motive was pretty basic, i wanted to speak my mind, unencumbered by stifling rules that are tools of last resort to keep everyone on the feminist narrative. There are forums for that, there is an equalityChristian forum where they can go and rant and rave about egalitarianism and redefining things and all this, and no one will bother them. I wont. I wouldnt wade into a forum whose express goal was celebrating evangelical feminism. I have nothing to discuss there.

    But CF is supposedly not skewed one way or the other, all views are “welcome”. There are very different theological views discussed there, I mean things that cannot be reconciled about faith and beliefs on scripture and stuff, in those forums that have nothing to do with marriage and gender. Its ONLY on the married forum that only one view is welcome. I dont even think they can see that though. The stuff you explain in your point number 1, about what men are NOT saying, I used to think they did that as a tactic. I dont think its a tactic. I think its the foundation of the beliefs they hold, that when considering, for example, a comment on no fault divorce, they actually think that murder and abuse IS a part of the thought process for thinking that over. You see thats nonsense, I see thats nonsense, they see that flow of posts as perfectly rational. Ive told a mutual friend of ours who battles mightily there to get that issue fixed by the staff, it cannot be fixed because if you made them unable to do that, they would have nothing to say.These distortions are actually the basis of the thoughts they use to form the opinion that what we said about no fault divorce is bad. Take away that ability, and they cannot even post, and they would feel not as if a tactic had been removed, but that their BELIEFS are not welcome.

    So, once I realized that, and that there will never be a chance to illustrate the absurdity of using murder as an argument against no fault divorce reform, for example, whats that leave? Im left with the desire to see if the whole world thinks that way, and I am the weird one, not able to fit murder into my thinking on NF divorce.

    Oh, I will edit out the usernames. I will not edit out the words and quotes. I will concede that putting the user names was born of 3 years of frustration at specific people. Surely you can understand that. But, guess what, had I not put the usernames, we’d be sitting here talking about me copying posts. Its not the usernames, its that they were challenged in a way that no moderator is going to lock it, or erase it or ban the challenger.

    But respectfully, you are kind of defending them too, with the “they are hurting” comments. Here is a fact. EVERYONE these days is hurting. Period. Everyone. They however are hurting other people, and hurting each other, in the flailing attempts to use feminism to repair these hurts. Maybe that was aimed at IAL, that comment, maybe you dont realize that this is my blog, or maybe your words are aimed at the comments not the blog, I cant tell. In any case, the number of men who are hurting and venting at places like Dalrock for example, why have I never seen that used to defend them? Why is the hurting defense reserved for women? Please dont fall into that trap.

  40. I dont want it to be private, but realize, this dust up will die off in a day or two, and we can talk as we please. My intention with the blog is just that, men and women who can understand what we are saying, or anyone who wants to discuss evangelical feminism without a moderator closing them down can do so if they want.
    Its not easy getting enough readers to build an interesting dynamic, so, comment when you come, even if you are not highly motivated, and comments breed comments and eventually its active and interesting. Ive posted 40 entries in just a couple of months, not great ones, there are a few I thought were OK, I just wanted critical mass, another writer will join, so it will go faster.

    Welcome, do i know you already?

  41. Yes, you know me, can I reveal that privately? If that’s not possible, you’ll figure out who I am after I start participating. Anyway, GLAD, glad, glad to be here and find this, I’ve always thought you should do something like this. I do hope the dust settles and we can talk as we please. You make so many great points, ou cut through all the BS and that is so refreshing. That other place is beneath you, really.

  42. It wasn’t clear who wrote the blog, actually. But thanks for letting me know. It makes a bit more sense now.

    Firstly, I actually don’t have any issue in posting quotes from posts. My own blog has many of them, used for discussion purposes. My only issue was with the posting of actual usernames. No, a persons actual identity is not revealed, but for those who know who that person is(either from the forum or real life), it can be hurtful and, most likely, will produce more anger from them. Your points about feminism are all good and, again, I have no issue with quoting their specific posts. None at all. I appreciate the removal of the usernames, though I’m sure you didn’t do it for me. lol.

    As to the comment that everyone is hurting, yes I know. But the Bible encourages us, the Body of Christ, to be as one. When one member of the body suffers, we all suffer. That doesn’t mean we should say and do things to make that member hurt even more. Granted, there are some things that are truthful and harsh, and may cause pain but will be better for the person in the long run. However, there are also some things that, while true, should be said more gently. Suffering should secure our compassion, otherwise we’re doing the exact same thing they do: seeking to cause more pain. And I’m not defending anyone. If I were on a blog made by one of the women you mentioned and they were bashing you or some of the other members, I would say the exact same things to them. Indeed, the last two days since I came to this blog and seen others talk badly about you, I have defended you as well and tried to help others see where you may be coming from. Admittedly, I thought you were IAL, so a lot what I said doesn’t apply now that I know you’re not IAL.

    Again, I agree with all of what you’ve said in your post. And now that I know you’re not IAL, a lot of what I disagreed with doesn’t apply anymore. To IAL(whoever you may be), I encourage you to rethink your approach here. Calling people douchebags, telling them they have manginas…are these things that Christ would approve of? Perhaps you’re not a Christian, though it seem that you were on CF…Either way, it really isn’t respectful to say such things to others. It’s immature and it shows how…childish you’re behaving, it’s not saying anything about the person its directed to.

  43. Yeah, thing is he things you do have consequences too. You want to march in the enemies camp and do His work welcome to it. You think that playing nice is going to win you warm fuzzies you are mistaken. Ask yourself why promiscuity, immodesty, rebellion, divorce and discontentment are not only not confronted but actively promoted there, it is error and you are helping it along. There are people there who are out to do nothing but promote error and I can see pretty clearly that you are full on in their camp. How nice of you.

  44. I have been called out so many times by that sickening crew but that is okay? Why not question their Christianity? They have gotten by with the most despicable tactics for months and when I get angry I’m the one who is not a Christian? Really? Names are descriptive of behaviors, in my anger at his behavior I thought those names were apt descriptions of the behaviors WWC was exhibiting. He is here to stir up discontent and has basically stated that like Gabrielle his purpose is to run of anyone pro-MRA from Christian Forums?

    What does that make him? Some kind of saint? His entire motive is bogus and somehow he still gets held up as something? It may sound trivial, but he started it, and now he is the one getting the bye and everyone else gets called on the carpet. Nah, I’ve been playing that game for too long already.

    I was wrong to use the terms I used about him and I’m ashamed of that. I don’t think there is any reciprocal shame at him or those women there at provoking me, and I think that speaks volumes about their characters.

  45. Yeah, God does love them. They deserve compassion, but they’re not going to get it and that is the sad truth. The reason they won’t get it is that they have swallowed the lies of the enemy and they are removing anything that will bring them to repentance in systemic fashion from the Bible and then they are marching into the public forum and preaching the demon-spawned crap there too. Remove repentance and you are going to remove compassion and then all you have left is judgement. Confronting that in that forum is like fighting with your hands tied behind your back. The Niceaen Creed? What a joke, more like the Fabian Creed.

    Anything that could bring balance or conviction is roundly criticized and vilified. I don’t blame those women I blame the Churches and the Forums who don’t have the guts to tell them the truth so that they might come to repentance. That will be on their heads.

    As far as my response to the provocation, I know that I was wrong and apologize for it. The provokers got what they wanted and they can continue on their merry way.

  46. I’m also curious why you didn’t address this:

    “WalksWithChrist on March 18, 2012 at 2:55 pm said:

    I’m reading this post and the following comments with a sense of disgust. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. But judging from the comments, you probably aren’t and won’t be. I’m just sad I wasted so much of my time at CF trying to talk sense to some of you.

    Bottom line:
    I am sad I called you brothers. No brother of mine would dare disrespect his brothers and sisters in Christ in such a manner. Go ahead and ridicule me for daring to call you all out. Have fun with that. It’s apparently all you’re good at.”

    Is it that you have higher expectations of us?

  47. Suffering should secure our compassion, otherwise we’re doing the exact same thing they do

    Janel with all due respect, the statement I copied here is both true and irrelevant Im sorry to say. Because, the manner in which they garner compassion is not to seek compassion, for healing, etc. It is pure and simple, a TOOL. I am not reacting to a call for compassion, I am reacting to a tool, a perversion of the instinct that others, including me, have for compassion.

    Look at it this way, or at least try and see my point, to me its like if I went a beat one of my kids to a pulp, then, when incarcerated, I start laying out my hurts of my past to manipulate peoples decisions. Its an imperfect analogy but its good enough for illustrative purposes.
    Here, the bottom line is these women are against anyone who is against women filing divorces for any reason, period. The funny thing is, they themselves have been taken in by the same appeal to compassion that they are trying to use on me, because along the line in life every single women they have ever known to divorce has manipulated THEIR support using the exact same techniques so of course they are going to frame life as a series of compassion justified actions that are necessary and how dare anyone suggest that things are not as they seem.

    This tool affects everything, from wildly liberal politics where calls to compassion are easy to spot as manipulation and lies, to this in the church where its used exactly the same, to create some emotional utopia where if things FEEL right because of the compassion they evoke, then woe to the man who has the nerve to question it…..first they try to frame you as an extremist, then they try (and succeed) using the site rules, then they fall back on calls to compassion for the hurting.


    When there is a topic….and the topic involves pro and con opinions, and one enters as exhibit A some compassion garnering anecdote, said compassion garnering anecdote cannot be treated as the final word on the topic….BECAUSE ITS IRRELEVANT since its not even on topic. Those who go along with it then are off topic as well, and fall for the trick of defending any damsel in distress.

    There is a place even for compassion, and there is a place where compassion is not necessary in context.

    That’s my opinion.

  48. IAL: I did question WWC’s words here as well. You’re not being picked on. It takes two to tango, as they say, and in the heat of the moment people say things they don’t mean. I’m glad to see you apologize for some of the unnecessary names that were thrown around, and I’m sure he appreciates it as well. As he said a few posts ago, his point has been along the lines of what I have been saying. He told me that he definitely agrees that the words and actions of many women on that forum have been wrong, and it has been wrong that they were not punished for it. However, the wrongs of those women doesn’t justify your behavior. It’s not our place to judge, withhold forgiveness or bring about repentance. That’s God’s role. Some people will never repent or change, no matter how apparent it is that they need to. No matter how much you complain, stamp your foot and declare to the world that this is wrong(and it is wrong, I agree), they will not repent. Especially not if they see such anger and hatred from you. That’s why we are called to demonstrate the Fruits of the Spirit.

    Let me be clear: their suffering/pain/abuse/unhappiness doesn’t justify their own actions and words in any way. They’re still sinning, plain and simple. However we are to LOVE the sinner, and be a light to them. No, I don’t mean ignore or make light of their sin. We can love the person without accepting the sin. And we can be honest about what we see without turning to such things as name calling, belittlement, condemnation, anger and hatred, none of which are righteous attitudes. We can show love, and still be against the sin. We can show compassion, even though there is not repentance. GOD is the only one with the right to judge anyone. We are commanded to love, period. I would suggest that, instead of focusing so much on the faults of others, try working on your own, as we all should do. The only person we should look to change is ourselves, because we can’t change anyone else. Then, we need to offer forgiveness to those who have wronged us, and let go of the anger that binds us. Maybe it’s just me(and I apologize if it is), but you seem very angry IAL. I don’t know who you were on CF, but I can assure you, those women/this issue shouldn’t lead you to say the things you’ve said here. I’ll be praying that God blesses you by lifting whatever hurt or anger there is in you over that forum and its issues.

    As for questioning anyone’s Christianity, I don’t have the right to do that, and nor does anyone else. Many of the women on CF questioned my faith, flat out told me I was an idolator who worshipped my husband and sex, and I know just how much that hurt me. I wouldn’t DARE put that pain on anyone else. WWC’s Christianity is between him and God alone. I don’t question his faith, I question actions, words, attitudes, etc. Either things will line up with the Bible and show love, kindness, self-control, joy, etc. or they won’t.

  49. I’m not talking about compassion being in this issue of feminism leading the church, I’m talking about how we(those who appose feminism) should react and treat those who claim to be our brothers and sisters in Christ when they wrong us. I’m not talking about things “feeling” right, I’m talking about things actually being right. You can fight the issue and still be compassionate. They’re not mutually exclusive.

    Yes, compassion can be manipulated. Yes, compassion is what can lead to women gaining the higher ground by manipulating others to feel bad if they oppose them. But, in my opinion, that only happens when the compassionate person is too weak to be compassionate AND firm at the same time.

    I don’t think I’m making much sense…Let me try saying it another way: the issues within the church shouldn’t lead Christians to hate each other so much, and treat each other so poorly. We will never get to a place when we can really exemplify Christ, while we’re busy tearing at each others throats. Yes, feminism within the church oppresses anyone who opposes it and wants to follow the Biblical outline of divorce, while feminists don’t want to be told they’re wrong for getting a divorce, even if they are wrong. But what will be gained if we can’t show love to each other? When will the ISSUE become less important than the PEOPLE? That’s what I mean about compassion: putting the people before the issue. Is there an issue? Yes, there bloody well is. Should we fight it? Yes, I think we should 100%. Should our resistance to that issue lead us to despise our brothers and sisters, to the point that we forget that they are our brothers and sisters? No. It sounds cliche and stupid but, what do you think Jesus would want us to do and say?

  50. I think that the point is that all people are surely wounded by sin. But discrediting the Gospel and those trying to speak of it…that’s not cool. I understand IAL’s frustration, because WWC was casting shame at us posting here and refuses to see that it was not meant to attack the posters personally but to show how wildly things were taken out of context and insisted upon. So yes, IAL lost his temper, as I have before. While I think he shouldn’t have called WWC names, that’s a minor fault compared with lending a voice to the discrediting of people’s character over difference of opinion.

    In fact some of those posters have directly contributed to others depression and humiliation and hurt, and no one really calls them on it who gets along with them. They have been offered prayers and have resented them where they did not coincide with their desire for empathy. What we should all be doing is dusting off our sandals. CF is a place where evil is encouraged to prevail, however subtle it might be.

  51. But no one hates anyone, its not an ongoing thing to be mean and not compassionate. Its a line in the sand, a strong rebuke. Its saying I wont be manipulated when Im on a topic that isnt about some specific persons hurt.
    If I was to sit here and read that or any forum, and pull out posts by someone w/ a hurtful event in their life, Id be guilty as charged.
    But if I go along with what you are saying, whats the outcome? The outcome is the topics will never be discussed, period, because anytime my viewpoint (and the other guys) comes up, we get the appeal to compassion, and its defenders, and its over, topic is then about the hurting person.
    Its rude, it deserves to be shut down and shut off….THEN resume the topic thats being discussed. What Im doing has nothing even to do with whether I have compassion or dont.

    Dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good Janel. Wrong, even evil, is capable of playing on your sense of fair play and compassion to achieve its ends. Whether you think this example here rises to that level is not important, what is important is that you see that it CAN happen, that even evil can USE your urge to compassion. Its not, therefore, lacking compassion to reset that conversation and get back on topic. Again, to dwell in calling them out, to drag it out over and again in a pointless fashion just for ridicule would be wrong. But in my opinion there has been a painfully evident need to have a reset that people realize what is happening even if the ones doing it do not realize that they too are being manipulated.

    It is not even possible to “gently” bring back the topic. Its been tried in every conceivable way, to the point you left the forum for petes sake.

    We can disagree to the specific volume of the rebuke, that’s fine, but in this case Im perfectly fine with WWJD being asked. he called out dens of vipers and we are recommended about pearls and swine. Tipping tables and all that. Its a reset to get to where the REAL compassion is, the compassion for the devastation of families by divorce that is being rationalized in the church with preachers afriad to say anything because they will be accused of being uncompassionate

  52. Compassion is not off topic. Compassion is not a valid tool for manipulation. Its fine, as is PASSION, and I have passion and compassion about divorce.

    The woman with the gun toting husband ought to have divorced, Id help her move her stuff! Just dont come at me with that as some kind of factor when talking about groundless no fault divorce. If she or anyone feels guilt at the mere mention of there being any problem with any divorce, and that seems one root of this issue, then maybe they made the wrong decision….yes….even her, though Id support her 100%.
    Im saying that people neednt get so dang defensive over things that dont even involbve them, and if they feel conviction thats not from me, conviction is from God

  53. sojournerscribe the posters were insulted by the blog owner. I read the insults. That was what I was calling out for the most part.

    I thought I made that clear in my OP at CF. If I did not, I apologize.

    I never once questioned the content of the blog post beyond the direct insults to those posters. I am well aware of the tenor of the posts at CF. And I will say briefly that if the opposite had happened, if a female had done something similar…which did happen once and I believe that female is now banned, I would have taken the same action.

  54. I hear ya on the divorce topic. I said that I agree with that, and I also agree that the topic of divorce should be able to be discussed without personal experience making otherwise clear waters merky. It is wrong for our personal experience to twist any scripture. Submission was countered in much the same way: “My husband was abusive. Submission suggests that I should have let him abuse me” which, obviously, not what was being said at all. I also hear ya on the fact that emotions make something right or wrong. If it feels right, it must be right. If it feels uncomfortable or uncertain, it must be wrong. We know that to be false. Doing the right thing doesn’t always feel right or bring us comfort.

    I totally hear you, and I agree. And yes, I also see that compassion CAN be used to distract from the ultimate cause. When it comes to fighting against lies masquerading behind a form of “Christianity”, there needs to be resistance to that. The lie needs to be fought against and proven false. However, there is a right and a wrong way to do that. I’m not saying you’re wrong in what you have said and done, but I am saying that our hearts need to be right. Our actions need to be right. Our words need to be right. 1 Corinthians 13 is very powerful. Basically, anything we do in the Name of Christ is meaningless if we don’t do it with love. That’s my point. Fight the lie, declare the truth, exclaim the Word of God, but do so with love. Many of the things said here by many of the posters on both sides were not said in love. That is what I think Christ would not approve of. He turned over the tables, He spoke the truth harshly and bluntly, but He also did everything in love. He didn’t slander people, He didn’t call then names, He didn’t ignore their pride and arrogance, but nor did He allow their sins to taint His opinion and love.

    Am I making more sense?

  55. I didnt slander anyone.
    The very best proof of innocence of slander is that what you said is 100% true. Saying “stupid” and such, well I deleted those words. I deleted the user names too. As the post reads now, Id write it again in a heartbeat.

  56. With all due respect, Janel, while I think you are right in a way it doesn’t matter. You, I and others tried very hard to speak with an effort towards mutual respect. While I think that WWC is a kind person, his readiness to dismiss the whole thing shows why some people are intensely frustrated with him. It’s par for the course, he says “Why all the fuss?” and is told why, and then he says, “Let’s just move on.” Maybe that works for him. This from the guy who said “These are not my brothers.” curiously, similar to a scene in “North Country”, except in that movie the female character had been subjected to genuine harassment. In this case he simply doesn’t believe that men on the forum have.

    Having said that, I think that there is nothing to talk about with people who think that way.

  57. Yeah, but the part you missed was his initial motive to provoke a response with the purpose of “exposing us”. He’s not apologizing for that, he’s bragging about it. So yes he is getting a bye. Then after coming here he lets me know not to “harass him” on CF. He’s just being manipulative.

  58. Compassion, for lying manipulators? Really?

    Yes, I’m angry. Because they get to dress themselves up as the compassionate reasonable minded ones and paint anyone that has a traditional view of the Bible as a misogynist. That is evil and doesn’t earn any compassion.

  59. @sojournerscribe You are over-simplifying a few things. As far as things went here yesterday, I wanted to “dismiss” since the atmosphere was super-charged and everyone, including me, was saying some pretty awful things. I do regret the “not my brothers” remark most of anything I said yesterday. That was out of character for me and I take it back.
    Sometimes when I have reached my stress limit (I have been treated for stress/anxiety recently by an MD) I will request that the discussion move on. But ideally I do like to settle things.
    Yes, these things do matter. They are at the core of our experiences as human beings and children of God.
    That said, I am grateful for your efforts here. Thank you for your comments regarding my actions.

  60. I appreciate the apology about the earlier remarks. As far as the stress levels thing goes–might I suggest that next time you consider saying “I need to take a break, this is very stressful. I’ll answer this later when I’ve taken a breather.” I think we could all respect that, certainly I would. It actually is very helpful to know that that’s why you say that.

  61. Compassionate AND firm. In other words compassionate while being vilified because that is what you are going to get. If you actually point to what the Bible says you are an evil tyrant who should be silenced, banned, shunned, censored and run off the extreme edge of the internet. If you do not show proper deference to the party line you are evil and divisive, you aren’t a Christian and you’re angry and hateful. Sure okay, I can suffer outside of the camp.

    But this I KNOW, that camp is rotten and corrupt and just like the disciples were told to knock the dust from their sandals I should have done so a long time ago. I fully feel that the coming judgment for what Western Civilization is becoming is under way and THAT is compassion. God is going to put an end to the Sunday Morning Nightclubs and the “Christian” women’s abortion and divorce culture, and the ratty pastor for hire Churchianity that spews non-stop PAP. The tables are full of vomit, pardon me for excusing myself.

    I’m not saying I’m perfect, far from it. The question remains, what is Jesus going to do? What is His compassion going to look like? Are we closer to the end now than the beginning? The longer I’m around, the more I see the judgements of Revelation as compassion and as the only medicine that will do. I pray that people repent and stop being lukewarm.

  62. Yeah, I’m right there with that one. It came as screaming censorship and intentional provocation to my eyes, I was “stressed” immediately. I should have went on a three day internet vacation when I saw his initial post/thread. I’m still not sure if I’ll ever be able to trust this guy again, but we’ll see.

    I appreciate you brother SS. And Emp as well and I’m sorry for my temper tantrum.

  63. Thanks sojournerscribe. Sometimes I don’t realize my stress level is shooting up until later. And by then I’ve already lost my patience and some of my reasoning ability. It’s a real struggle. I thought of the same advice for myself earlier this evening, so I will definitely give that a try. Thanks for the understanding. You have no idea how helpful that is. Blessings to you and the rest of the boys (and ladies!) as well.

  64. IAL, I can assure you I came with no intent to provoke. That came much later with the jokes, and I’m sorry for taking that so far. If i realized you were that upset from the outset, I never would have gone that route at all.

    I’m sorry.

  65. I join the group hug, sincerely guys, I want to TALK about the issues my provocative post raised, including the manner in which we men have been led off topic every single time by mis characterizing our words so badly. I can discuss it without user names, I can discuss it, IT, as a topic in and of itself, the manner in which others are manipulated away from valid points we make. I can discuss topics, debate them, even argue them passionately, and never not once feel anger or threatened, I dont care if some agree or not, never have….just that we can have a discussion of the topics that arise, thats all.

    I can say things like “women tend to not understand this” or things like that, and I always will say those things because I believe them, and like exploring the WHY behind them. I can discuss same about men, never have I fled male accountability, ever, yet even when talking about men they twisted our words as if we were excusing and blame shifting.

    Guys Im just sick and tired and done taking it. Its that simple. And if I end up banned for good because of me posting here, sheesh, so be it. I ask myself what good is it to be there, for me, or for anyone else, no one benefits, I get mad, others get provoked, and its futile. Here, I can dish it and take it. I prefer the IT thats dished and taken be strong views ON TOPICS.

    I am very happy some air cleared….truly.Its what I was saying to janel, it was a reset…nothing more, and no lack of compassion was there. The situation called for none except as a tool of manipulation

  66. We’re men (*wink*) and online we can’t step outside. I think face to face we tend to see when a button has been pushed and we won’t escalate in the same way (since it would mean fisticuffs). Also, when someone pisses me off in person I leave and we just stay away from each other, I can access the internet from my couch and if I’m not careful there is never a cooling off period.

  67. It’s a good group hug. Thanks for your passion Cons…or whatever it is I should call you now! I have basically understood you for a while now. It’s mostly been a matter of having the patience/energy to parse the volume of material…and the intensity.
    ; )

    I have to be honest and say that I’m not all that interesting in the MRA topic in general. I feel like I did learn a lot in our discussions of it over time and consider myself mildly educated. The conflict inherent in the topic is a bit much for me, some of that is my suffering from anxiety…some is just a garden variety aversion to bullshit. LOL Sorry, just had to throw that in. But seriously, I respect the viewpoints and agree with them at their core.

    I think we are all reaping the fruits of a non-CF environment right now. It’s only been a day and a great conflict has been hashed out. How often does that happen at CF?

  68. IAL, I understand. I was thinking even last night that if the three of us, me you and Cons, met in person that we’d most likely get along famously. The online aspect does indeed prevent certain intuitive understandings from happening. I’ve seen that happen so many times and am not immune myself.
    Besides, you don’t want to mess with me in person…my wife has a brown belt. *giggle*

  69. Mush truth in some of this that is germane to the who gender dynamic. Here, men alone, dust settled, and I’m sure each of us would agree that 2 days ago this was a blood feud, a life making folks pick a side

    Yer with us….er yer with him

    If sojourner and I and maybe a couple other people who are going to start writing here get this up and running the way I hope to, hopefully this wont be the last eruption, what I mean is when you have sufficient people posting the eruptions are different, in that even if two folks get in a direct fight, it disappears into the mix.

    I hope we succeed

  70. If taking things here to discuss them had been the first thing someone had done in response to their nonsense, I would probably be on the “hey that was not cool” bandwagon. But it’s been litterally years of politely pointing out how they are being disrespectful in twisting words, years of appealing to staff to take some sort of action. While what was done in bringing things off site could have been done better, and removing the insults and user names pretty much fixes the main issue, it is absolutely understandable and in a last resort sort of way, not wrong at allall.

  71. @IAL, we both practice a Vietnamese style Cuong Nhu. http://www.cuongnhu.com I’m working on my brown belt now, but it’s slow going. Life keeps getting in the way of my training. We do everything from karate to boxing to judo and a few things inbetween. It’s fun and good training. We even have a school in Alaska! You can look it up on our site.
    @empath, Many blessings in your endeavors. I hope you don’t have too many trolls or flame wars. : )

  72. In light of that success, and before I forget again, I have a request. Since things seems to be repaired on this end and peace has been made with the participants here, would you the blog owner like to prepare a statement to the folks you quoted that I may take back to them at CF via PM? An apology, explanation or combination that you feel would be appropriate.
    And if you are willing to do that, I will need a favor…and I’m embarrassed to ask. I have completely and utterly forgotten the name of the person who I initially talked to about this…I only know them in passing. So could you let me know who these people are if you remember?
    It seems like tying up “loose ends” on the other end would be a great thing.

  73. I dont understand what you mean WWC about the initial person you responded to or whatever, can you explain that better? Talked to where? Sorry I’m thick.

    As to an apology, I know this will not be easily received, but other than the names, and the word stupid, I’m ok w/ what I did, and therefore to apologize for the names and the word stupid would create more issues than it would solve because they think that there mere existence of the idea of calling out the BS is a major personal affront and attack. Ive had PM’s or emails myself with those that would hear an apology. The rest would just stir already settled dust

  74. I initially spoke to someone via PM who let me know what you posted here. I don’t even remember how it came up.

    I understand. Just thought I’d put the offer out there since you don’t have the ability to PM folks there at this time.

  75. An apology? What is he supposed to apologize for? Also I want to clarify what this site actually is. Is it some sort of extension of CF, is it a private blog, or is it something that the general public can participate in? Is this something that one needs to join or what?

  76. IAL: Luke 6:22-23 “Blessed are you when men hate you,
    And when they exclude you,
    And revile you, and cast out your name as evil,
    For the Son of Man’s sake.
    23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy!
    For indeed your reward is great in heaven,
    For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.”

    Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. 29 To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. 31 And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.”

    Luke 6:35 “But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.”

    Showing mercy and compassion on those who mistreat us and misuse us isn’t optional. I hate to keep bringing this up, cause I feel like it doesn’t really matter anyway, but I feel strongly about it and I think that, even when fighting something like lies and manipulation of Scripture and personal attacks, that we should keep a righteous attitude. We must remember that our battle is not against the flesh and blood of others, even when they are a big part of the issue. Cons, I know you don’t hate, and I totally agree with and support what you’re doing here. But for others who have commented, I encourage them to think strongly on these scriptures. Christ has told us to be careful what we hear preached in His Name, for not all of it will be His Will. We know that divorce is one of the greatest areas of controversy in churches today because so many women and men don’t want true accountability. And we know that we are to speak out against what we see as being false, so that others are not lead astray. But we also know that we are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, that we are to do unto others as we want the to do unto us.

    There has been much healing here, that I am very glad to see. I apologize as well if anything I have said has caused trouble or pain to anyone. As for the women on CF that have led to this discussion, I have had to get myself to a place where I knew in my heart that if I ever met them in person and knew who they were, that I would be able to great them with a smile and a hug. Before I got to that place I was angry, bitter, I hated God for allowing them to get away with things they said to me, and I hated myself for not being as tough and unaffected as they seemed to be. Even after I left I would go back and read posts at times, and some usernames I couldn’t even look at without seething. And even though my hurt was justified, and even though my anger was justified, I knew I had to surrender it and let it go. It’s still a process, but it’s one I know that Christ has led me to.

    I know that peace between those women and us isn’t what this blog is for, so I’m not suggesting that anyone should apologize. I am, however, suggesting that we all check our minds and hearts and make sure that, if God asked us to, we WOULD be able to see them face to face and wish them well without any hard feelings. Not for their benefit, but for ours. One thing many of them refused to ever acknowledge was that forgiveness was mandatory. They believed that forgiveness required repentance from the other person, which we know is not the case in Scripture. We should make sure that we practice what we spoke to them and, even though they haven’t and likely never will apologize, that we forgive them and feel mercy and compassion towards them.

  77. @cool

    No, its not an extension of CF at all. That’s been the only real traffic so far, but hopefully other posts will get some attention and we can discuss a plethora of issues. I kinda hope this comment section dies a natural death, I hate to shut down comments because I just dont like it when thats been done elsewhere.

    Everyone can post anytime on anything. The blog posts Ive written so far were all done very hastily, except maybe the past few, there are one or two buried back in there that are OK, most are full of grammar and spelling problems and just bad writing, but I wanted to build up a certain number of posts.

    There are currently two writers, and maybe there is another one soon to start.

  78. Janel, this is only tangentially a reply to what you just said. Maybe more of an extension or a response that tumbled out of my head after reading.

    We (humans)seem to have a problem in allowing mercy and compassion to exist on one hand and justice on the other. We tend to wrongly see them as mutually exclusive. They aren’t but the balance point is a very hard one to find at times. When I get bothered by the BS over there I have to ask myself why I’m bothered. Too often I find that I’m mainly upset for ME. That I’m upset about being treated unfairly. But underneath that, there is upset and anger over the that that discussions that need to be had and advice that needs to be given can’t be because it will get all twisted up into something that was never said or meant. There is a larger injustice though that goes beyond the me. There’s the simple fact that there is an objective right and wrong. And that to speak of right and wrong, even though it may not be pleasant to the recipient, is not inherently unmerciful or uncompassionate.

  79. ” That wasn’t really an answer to my question (although in a way – I think the lack of answer probably *is* very telling).

    So – in a scenario like that – would you say that divorce was the right thing for her to do? Or – would the direction of your advice be to simply put some distance between them – and give him the opportunity to “cool off” (but remain married)?

    I’m not approaching this solely from a safety standpoint. I’m also approaching this from a “she needs to get away from him…forever, and move on with her life, which also allows for taking on a new non-abusive spouse.”

    That’s what I’m getting at.

    So, in that scenario, yay or nay?”

    I realize that we are at the point of wanting to let the details of this dust up quietly die but since the above quote was in rely to me I thought I’d say that I responded by basically saying that what i think about such terrible situations is irrelevant. That the fact that such situations exist doesn’t say one thing at all about the original point which is that in almost all of the cases in which is happens, divorce is wrong.

  80. Good, excellent even, points. To them I am obliged to add, its definately ME that gets pissed, its definitely also the ideas that are anathema to right and wrong, but one more thing that puts enormous weight on the back of the whole thing is that they are the local front line representatives for THE church as it exists today.
    We keep talking about that…the church is doing this and that….but does anyone really stop and think about that, let it marinate in your mind and heart. WE are being crowded out of THE church because WE read certain passages of scripture more conservatively and we choose, if we err, to err on the side that clearly does the least harm.

    See they will agree that divorce harms some folks, but they make hyperbole of a case that is first utterly irrelevant, but second, its ONE CASE. Meanwhile we all know the stats, the % of kids with one parent, the % of suicides because of hopelessness over divorce, the crime the addictions (they will jump in to say yea thats men blaming others for their sin) and sorry, there is not a sane comparison, and the church is the instrument of this destruction. In that way its like they have set up money changing tables in the temple for petes sake. The anology is solid, tumbling the tables is OK.

    I want to point out to Janel something else. Top repeat over and again that “it must be done in love” carries the unspoken inference that it wasn’t and wont be. WHY? What is the source of the preconception? Is it your own process by which you evolved through how to handle that stuff? There is no reason to tell people, over and over, that something must be done in love unless you really think it isn’t being done as such.

    Isnt the real question that you want to focus the love on the ONE example, the hurting story of the lady w/ the husband with the gun (the irrelevant one) instead of focusing it on the myriad scores of ruined lives because of divorce? Please think on that. Its not love or no love….its placing the love and compassion where, in my opinion, it can do some long term good in the form of actually preventing someone else from experiencing it, maybe. That woman already had her problem. The type of support she may need hasnt a wit to do with how people discuss divorce.

  81. Right.

    2 problems with that point he made

    1. It was painfully obvious you didnt and wouldnt say anything about that women divorcing, and you in no way inferred anything at all. I dont know if he was mezmerized by the dissembling and obfuscation or he was just poking the fire

    2. it was utterly irrelevant just like you said

  82. Chaz, I definitely agree. And I don’t think that speaking the truth is unmerciful or not compassionate. However, the way the truth is spoken CAN be. That’s what I’m saying. I think the truth should always be spoken, no matter how hard it is for someone to hear or say. How else can the truth set us free if we’re never told what the truth is? But, as some things have been in the past, speaking the truth in a mean way, or a rude way, or an insulting or slanderous way isn’t going to help things. (Most people here haven’t been rude, mean or slanderous) What we say is important, but how we way it is just as equally important. We can show compassion(and even empathy/sympathy) without watering down the truth or making light of a harsh scripture.

  83. It i equally important up to the point where concern over this dilutes the truth.

    Consider the following 2 sets of 2 statements spoken from the pulpit (Ive used the ex before)

    SET A

    1. Looking at women other than wife can be sin

    2. Divorce can be sin
    SET B
    1. Homosexuality is sin

    2. Divorce is sin

    Think through the reactions of the crowd in each case, Case A, compare those 2, case B compare those 2

    There would be those who see even SAYING these straightforward things is hateful, there would be those who see saying divorce CAN be sin, is a hateful thing to say. So, does the preacher “consider how he says it”? The answer is YES….he does, hence we are where we are today unable to say anything about anything.

    What this shows is that the idea of whats nice and not nice is subjective, and once something enters the realm of subjectivity it cannot be sort of policed for niceness or that is defined by the loudest cries, not any objective truth.
    We are already entirely too far into subjectivity and relativism as it is. To not stake a claim is to go even further.

    You keep saying “no one here has done this….but dont do this”, if no one has, then why keep returning to it again and again?

  84. @empath:

    My post about love was mostly addressed to IAL and his stance that “they”(CF women) won’t get compassion because they refuse to admit wrong and repent. My point to him was that it’s not our job nor our right to withhold forgiveness and compassion from those around us, no matter how they don’t deserve it. I agree with everything you’re saying, empath. And from you and most others I don’t think there is a lack of compassion or love. But intentionally and knowingly(and admitting to) withholding compassion because someone else has made and continues to make a mistake, that one thing taints the rest of what is being said and makes it look like bitterness. If the only posts I read was the blog post, and your comments, chaz’s comments, sojourners comments and cool’s comments, I would definitely think there is love and compassion here.

  85. Ok thats fine I just want to say about IAL that I think you may be assuming too much. He’d be the first to extend compassion to someone ABOUT their issue, in a situation that involved their issue.
    He, like me and others is unwilling to let compassion for one thing be used as interference for another thing

  86. Great testimony Janel. I think that speaks to our weakness as humans to be affected by not only the things that are said and done to us, but words on the ‘net as well. I for one will reflect on what you have said.

  87. I agree with you completely. But there is a thread in what your saying that bothers me. That unless a feminized Gospel is promoted that it isn’t compassionate, that unless the right words are used to soothe the emotions that you are not being compassionate. Generally, being told to repent doesn’t feel good. I didn’t like it when you did it to me. There is an underlying supposition that I have seen developing for a long time and that is this, men are privileged non-victims and they are neither nurturing nor compassionate and should keep their mouths shut when it comes to any topic that concerns the “abuse” of a woman. That includes divorce, family planning, housework, budgeting, and basically everything else under the new “abuse” guidelines.

    So the argument is to tell men to cede the field to the feminists or be smeared for our lack of compassion (which I know you are not doing). If that happens the Church and men are going to be subject to a greater judgement. I get forced out of ministry (and yes this has happened to me this month) because I am masculine, because I have a Y chromosome and I’m not properly ashamed of it? It is passion that keeps us engaged and passion that disqualifies us men in the eyes of many. Maybe men aren’t supposed to minister or even have the same ministries as women. Maybe men shouldn’t be guilty of abuse merely by existing.

    I know how frustrating it is, but chiding me for my lack of compassion is not the solution. I have a lot of it, what I still have little of is forgiveness for people I see buying into the doctrines of devils while pretending they are the Bride of Christ. I have a problem seeing the lack of repentance, the lack of sincerity and the lack of reverence towards God’s word and still being like Christ on the Cross and forgiving them even when they are actively promoting error. That’s an operation that I still haven’t allowed the Holy Spirit to perform.

  88. I feel compassion for the very nastiest of them, I think they are being deceived. What difference does my compassion make when they are cutting themselves off from the Blood? If I don’t forgive them that is what I am doing, the Bible tells me that unless I forgive I won’t be forgiven. At the end of the day whether I feel compassion or not towards them is not going to amount to anything as far as they are concerned. What will matter for them is whether they were obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ and took His yoke upon themselves. What will matter is if they knew Him and shared His teaching or instead shared the doctrine of the secular humanists. False teachers aren’t going to get much “compassion” from Jesus according to what I read.

    That’s heavy and people seem to have forgot.

    The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
    (Tit 2:3-5)

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    (Mat 5:19)

    But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
    (Mat 18:6-7)

  89. I too feel compassion for them. Not at all in a warm fuzzy feelings sort of way more in a pitying feeling sorry for them way. Here’s the thing though. Every time someone has tried to be nice to the worst of them, expressed any sort of sympathy for their difficult situation,expressed that their nastiness(usually framed in nicer terms) is an understandable product of their difficult situation, they usually deny that their situation is all that bad. It’s truly schitzophenic in that on one hand they go about looking for sympathy/empathy for their lousy situations and then on the other deny that the situation is even bad at all.

    But years of experience with them tells me that being nice, being soft and warm and fuzzy will only get you bitten in the end. Just ask McScribe, or any of a number of other posters even ones without any history with them, who have been jumped on for the tiniest of (usually imagined) offenses.

  90. IAL: thank you for explaining. For the record, I don’t think that compassion has to encompass…”niceness”, for lack of a better term. Compassion is merely a condition of the heart that guards us against bitterness and resentment, and it can be outwardly expressed in many ways. Speaking the harsh and bitter truth can be a form of compassion. Speaking softly, and making implications instead of outright blunt statements about the truth can be compassionate. It depends on the situation, in my opinion, how things should be said.

    As to why I’m making the point: compassion and forgiveness are two things that God has been helping me with. Maybe because it’s a personal journey that I’m on, these two things are sticking out for me and some of the initial comments shocked me. If I’m beating a dead horse, I’ll stop.

    Again, I am in complete agreement with the lies that are being fed to the church, and why they’re being fed. I had a Pastor once who refused to talk about controversial things like that(divorce, homosexuality, fornication…even though plenty of it was going on the congregation), yet he condemned his poverty-stricken congregation for not giving more each month in tithes and offerings. It’s a pandemic of the watering down of the word, and it does need to be addressed.

  91. Pingback: Recycled Post….Because I liked it | Feminism is Empathological

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