What is the word for divorce in Churchianese?

Maybe someone should mention to Dave Ramsey:

For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts.

(Malachi 2:17 NASB)

And that he can find it in the same book that discusses tithing.

I was listening to what I consider his ridiculous financial advice and got a heavy dose of blue pill on the side. In his post “It’s Our Money” Dave gives some standard advice such as he does to any women that he radio diagnoses as “abused”.

QUESTION: Amber in Tacoma is a stay-at-home mom. Her husband says the money he earns is his, and he gives her an allowance. Amber is frustrated and asks if she should start billing him for what she does around the house.

Dave says they need marriage counseling.

Examine that question, what advice do you give this woman?

Now time to see how the “master” handles it:

Time for Dave to don his Shining White Armor!

ANSWER: No, you need marriage counseling. This doesn’t have anything to do with Financial Peace. This has to do with your husband treats you like a financial twit. Let me just tell you if Sharon Ramsey treated me the way your husband treats you, we’d have a haymaker problem. He’s treating you like a 4-year-old, and he’s an overbearing jerk. I don’t know how you approach that exactly—possibly duct tape and a two-by-four involved. I don’t know.

Scrambling abuse imagery in where none exist, and not just any imagery, graphic violent imagery. Comparing being placed on a budget as something that needs to be responded to with violence is a brilliant stroke by the master. He continues:

The attitude that you’re describing is so unappealing I don’t know how you’ve stayed in it, and I’m not surprised he’s been divorced twice before. It sounds like you guys really do need to sit down with a marriage counselor because this guy is untenable. You’re not going to stay in this situation unless you’re somebody who likes abuse. (all emphasis mine)

This is a verbal escalation, “unappealing” is traded up for “untenable” is traded up for “abuse”. You seriously have to lack imagination to see where this is going from here:

Your son is now learning how to be a man improperly. Your husband is not a man. He’s a scared little boy, but your son is learning how to be a man improperly because he’s going to treat his wife the same way. This is what’s being modeled before him. You have to fix this. This cannot stay this way. You have to get with it. Your husband is obviously a strong, strong personality. I hope that he can learn some humility and agree to work with his spouse because that’s what’s going to be required for your marriage to last and for you to model properly before your 5-year-old the proper way to treat a wife. A wife is a queen. She’s not the slave. She’s not the hired help.

Full on “Defcon 1″ shaming language! As well as: “NO! The children!!!!” Note how “she’ becomes solely responsible for fixing that situation, not prayer, not God, her. Also note how the child is “her” child, that means that either it is biologically not his or that we have already stepped into all children are the women’s land (I cannot be sure). Either way she is the QUEEN. You go grrll!

What next? Is there any doubt?

I’ll give you a prediction. If you don’t do what I say, within three years, you’ll be divorced, because in talking to you, you’re not an unintelligent person, and you’re not going to sit there and continue in this level of emotional and financial abuse that you’re under.

Divorce! You knew it all along. Of course the “master” deflects expertly from actually advising divorce but he has led her right down the path. I’m curious if anyone knows what the word “divorce” translates into in Churchianese? Allowance?

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31 thoughts on “What is the word for divorce in Churchianese?

  1. Divorce should really not be an option. You cited Malachi; Jesus himself actually has a lot to say about divorce and isn’t a big fan…

    It’s true that women are asked to submit to their husbands as they submit to the Lord but people often get stuck on this and overlook the husband’s table of duties: “Love your wife as Christ loves the Church” (Eph 5:25), “nourish and cherish her as his own body” (Eph 5:28), to “honor and understand her” (1 Peter 3:7), and “not be bitter against her” (Col 3:19).

    The answers are always in the scriptures if people take the time to look.

    Great post by the way:)

  2. Ever notice how when there’s talk about equality from feminists they get irritated when you mention women like Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, Kim Campbell, Indira Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto, heck even Hilary Clinton or Sarah Palin? Why don’t they like these women? Apparently because they saw that within the system there was opportunity and they took it and ran with it. Whatever you think of their personal politics, they did. Fair enough in my opinion. My impression is that that level of politics is tough to get into, and you probably need a thick skin. But instead of being inspiring they just seem to annoy feminists and outrage them.

    In this case, my response would have been “Here’s what you do: : talk to your husband about budgeting if you’re concerned. Talk to him about how you’d like to spend money. Be his partner. Read Proverbs 31 and consider what kind of partner you are being carefully before you accuse your husband. Remember to always look to the beam in your own eye first. Then make an agreement with him about how as partners you spend the family money, and talk to him honestly about anything outside of that you’re thinking of.”

  3. Well of course I’m forgetting the purpose of such questions. Most of the time it’s like when one kid starts calling another names and then shoving him a bit on the playground–it’s getting worked up to actually have the real fight. So yes, I’m forgetting that the real purpose is to say “that man, he’s no good, he’s unfixable, I need to get out of here and get me the life I deserve!”

  4. “…I’m not surprised he’s been divorced twice before.”

    Hum?

    Just a guess, but, I would have to wonder if the guy had been twice married to women who didn’t manage money well, and spent recklessly. Might explain why a guy might want to hold the reins a bit tight 3rd time around.

    Seems to me there were some very fundamental questions NOT addressed – like whether the “allowance” was perhaps quite reasonable and generous to begin with, but just not as much as she believed she should be able to spend; and whether or not she had ever been a reliable steward of money so as to make the husband feel he could trust her.

    Another plausible explanation is that the allowance was implemented due to her having had a poor track record – even within the marriage – regarding her ability to budget.

    Personally, I’ve known several couples were an allowance for one spouse was an absolute necessity to get out of deep financial straights (and, in one case, it was the man who’s spending had to be reined in).

  5. The purpose is to get more money to spend, clearly. Funny there are women who post here who speak to their budget they live by, they are SAHM, and they set a budget. The way this woman words her complaint suggests she wants no budget at all, not that she wants to talk to him about changing it or making a better one. She offers no specifics then she whines that her labor is unpaid.
    OH?
    Lets see, her and her husband live in a home, drive cars, eat, do things with kids and whatever else they do. She is a stay at home mother to support his earning to pa for THEIR lives. If she were to be paid for her labor, then she should turn some of it back to a share of the house payment, utilities, fuel, autos, cloths…..then……guess what, she is right back where she started. She is compensated.
    Proverbs 31 has good words about a wife’s stewardship.
    Sojourn
    One little thing though, you say then talk about other things bothering you. This is a bad idea. Women have a hard enough time talking about a single topic anyway. If women could learn to approach with one defined issue and stay with the facts and parameters, many arguments would be avoided. Inviting her to lay it all out could be a disaster.

  6. What I wrote was: “Here’s what you do: : talk to your husband about budgeting if you’re concerned. Talk to him about how you’d like to spend money. Be his partner. Read Proverbs 31 and consider what kind of partner you are being carefully before you accuse your husband. Remember to always look to the beam in your own eye first. Then make an agreement with him about how as partners you spend the family money, and talk to him honestly about anything outside of that you’re thinking of.”

    I don’t see how it says “talk about what’s bothering you.”

  7. @slwerner

    I have a feeling this guy probably has a track record for picking out profligate spenders and gold diggers. I honestly don’t think Ramsey was doing anything here besides setting up a scenario by which he could define and crystalize a case for “financial abuse”, and using it as a justification for frivorce. It doesn’t seem to me that this is operating in good faith.

    @empath

    Remember seeing some of the women over at CF talking about Dave Ramsey and his simple steps for displacing your husbands headship over finance? The humanist are carving another path into the Church here. Anyone who let’s their family listen to ‘Christian’ radio is asking for trouble. From FotF and FLT to this I’d say this is as insidious as daytime television.

  8. @ Outlaw Monk

    Does it strike you that there is anything Godly about Ramsey’s advice? Did he use scripture? Spiritual principles? Did he recommend prayer? Why does he get a pass for this stuff? To my mind it is the spirit of Antichrist. Specifically teaching in opposition to the teachings of Christ. And ‘Christian’ radio stations air this crap.

  9. This may go against the grain for some, but I actually do believe in divorce. Let me explain why.
    1.I read Malachi in context. I don’t find that it says “I hate Divorce” says God. I find that it says that the Lord hates putting away. The actual context for Malachi concerns the rejection of God by the Israelites; it’s not a diatribe against divorce as the laws of Moses described it.

    2. I think that this is what Jesus was referring to when he talked about remarriage as adultery. I think that ‘divorce is not an option’ is a stumbling block. If we had clear strict conduct for divorce, we would, probably like Orthodox Jews, have a lower divorce rate. Studying more traditional marriage forms–many of which do permit divorce–I’ve noticed that there is a stronger focus on what one puts into a marriage, and a stronger sense of moral discipline.

  10. You quote Dave Ramsey, but I found this advice to be rather shocking and not what I have been used to hearing in my (admittedly few) encounters with his advice. Can you link to the article you sourced this from? I tried to google it, but nothing came up.

    Thanks.

  11. Outlaw Monk

    It’s true that women are asked to submit to their husbands as they submit to the Lord but people often get stuck on this and overlook the husband’s table of duties:

    I try and answer these kind of posts patiently because I know where you are coming from. I was there, I would once have reflexively said exactly what you said.

    Consider what you are saying. Do you really think people overlook the husbands calling? Have you ever heard preaching that did not fixate more on the husband than the wife? You did an interesting thing, you said “but”. You created a conditionality for the woman, and thats how the church has ruined the whole arrangement.

    Please consider if what you claimed people “often” do. Actually, what people often do is to claim that people often do that. I read frequently people saying what you said…..”BEWARE, men we often forget the part about loving our wives”, and its that warning, not the occurrence of the actual thing, that is prevalent. Evangelical feminists have done a masterful thing setting this frame this way.

    The real problem is that the submission part is NEVER spoken with out it being made conditional, as you did with the word “but”.

  12. Yes Christian radio is a disaster. It has gone so far that one woman believed it was a source of some type of supernatural energy or something. She’d say she surrounded herself with coffee cups and trinkets with scripture on them, then put the radio beside the bed w/ Christian radio station while she was ill, and all that imagery and trinkets were healing her.

  13. @T E Hanna

    You quote Dave Ramsey, but I found this advice to be rather shocking and not what I have been used to hearing in my (admittedly few) encounters with his advice. Can you link to the article you sourced this from? I tried to google it, but nothing came up.

    I like Ramsey’s financial advice.

    I do not like his marital advice. His advice is full of what GIL outlines above. For example: He always says that if a man and his wife don’t agree on a purchase, or move, or whatever then nothing should be done; period.

    Unless of course, the wife calls into the program and complains that her husband doesn’t agree with some financial decision. If Dave agrees with her: Then she is to twist the husband’s arm however she can to get his assent. If Dave agrees with the husband, then the husband is failing to love his wife properly, and that is manifesting as her rebellion. It’s always the man’s fault.

    In probably 200 programs I’ve heard, what I just described occurs in each. Never in those same programs have I heard him say, “Look, lady: Your husband is right, and the problem here is that you just don’t want to submit to your husband the way the Bible says you should. You’ve got a heart problem.”

  14. @ Scribe,

    I know it’s not popular to compare marriage with covenant relationship with God amongst feminists, but I still do it anyway. Marriage is a type of the Churches relationship with Jesus Christ.

  15. IAL

    I dislike the silly diatribes on debt. He has created an army of financial religionists. He is like any consultant type, he will allow no deviation from his mantra. Ive heard him admonish folks that use a credit card to get air miles and pay it off every month, stuff like that. He is like some kind of AA guru about debt. I guess there may be folks who need romper room guardrails on their financial lives. Thank goodness others take risks. He tells people looking to start a business that they should work 3 jobs and wait until they can buy the biz outright. Uh huh, well, I own a business, and once owned six, and there are not three jobs that would afford that money to buy those in my lifetime.

  16. An allowance means that the husband has not imparted enough Biblical financial wisdom to his wife to trust her with a checkbook. I’d tend to agree they need counseling for that purpose, though I’ll grant that Ramsey puts it in a clumsy manner. She may or may not need counseling for covetousness, which Ramsey does not address well at all. In fact, a quick search of his site registered (at least when I tried) 0 results for the word “covet”. Odd in a financial blog, no?

  17. Excellent posts Empath and others. It seems to me that this blog has gotten more serious and less comedic as of late. I very much like the serious subject matter as I continue to read and learn, but I also like the infrequent jokes.

    Never buy securities and hold indefinitely. Buy low and then sell at a profit. Then buy it again when it dips in price. Perhaps a large cap that has a track record of paying a good dividend should be held for a while.

    Credit card use can be advantageous if it is paid off every month and rewards are being earned. Then the user subsequently earns a bit by using the card; as long as there are no yearly fees or any type of fee.

    Kinda like using the Starbucks reward system. I use my freebie for either an egg salad sandwich or a chicken salad sandwich and earn the stars by purchasing lower price items such as iced tea and cookies.

  18. It seems to me that this blog has gotten more serious and less comedic as of late

    Yea, I’m feelin’ the lack-o-wit, just nothing has presented itself for my exploitation as humor. Thank you for the nice words. The two other guys here have lots to contribute, I hope they sustain their contributions. It keeps things fresh and opinions a little bit diverse while being unified as Christians.

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  20. An allowance means that the husband has not imparted enough Biblical financial wisdom to his wife to trust her with a checkbook.

    Maybe that’s the case Bike, but Mr. Ramsey never bothers to delve that deep. He just takes it on faith that the husband is a tyrant and the wife is being put upon.

    That said, the whole revulsion towards an allowance leaves me incredulous. I don’t get an allowance, as my husband trusts me to spend or not in accordance with his stated goals., But isn’t an allowance just another word for a budget?

    Why does an allowance necessarily mean that she is being untrusted or treated like a child? She doesn’t say whether the husband gives himself a set allowance for spending, or if there is a very strict set of budget guidelines for food, entertainment, etc.

    The whole thing was far too vague and lacking in information to justify the seeds of divorce Dave Ramsey planted here. Heaven forbid this Queen be subject to financial limits and rules!

  21. I heard him speaking to a women about her husbands “abusive” church. Anyone guess why it was “abusive”? From his description and tirade, because it was complementarian (that is Biblical). 3 minute tirade on “abusive” churches.

  22. I’m taking no sides. That may be why I latched on to a different part of the question:

    “Her husband says the money he earns is his…”

    I would be curious to know if he invited/instructed her to stay at home, or if it was at her insistence and against his wishes. I would also want to know if she has any income at all, if so where it is spent, and how old the children are. Furthermore, there’s no knowing if those are his exact words.

    Nonetheless, if it is as it appears on a first glance, then the big problem is not money; the big problem is a lack of unity in the marriage, in that both of them are struggling for individual rights and not appearing to consider the good of the whole.

  23. Yes, Sigyn it sounds like there is a lot of dysfunction in these two. That is not in dispute. Waving the “D” word around is downright un-Godly though. Every problem in Churchianity is a nail and their only tool seems to be the hammer of divorce, what ever happened to the life transforming power of the Holy Spirit? What ever happened to prayer and submission and obedience to God’s word? Whatever happened to working things out as we all draw nearer to Christ. We’re all married to Him? If we cannot get along here with our spouses how are we going to hack and eternity with them in heaven? When exactly do those “rough corners” come off? I want to have most of mine knocked of here, before I stand before the throne.

  24. then the big problem is not money; the big problem is a lack of unity in the marriage

    I have to disagree. This is too -catch all- for my taste. There is, by strict definition, lack of unity between any two people. If not money, then something else. That is why we are instructed as we are, men to love, women to respect and submit, because only by following those guidelines as unto the Lord would there even be a chance at some unity in a relationship. Those imperatives are guardrails to keep the two headed the same way. She (the women in the topic) appears to not be following her guidelines but rather following her willful desires, and IF the man stated what she says he did, which is too handy by half, then he is not following his by speaking in such stark unloving terms.
    Based on real life, is it much stretch to imagine she cranks up the hyperbole a bit?

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